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Velomobile 6

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Printed on: 07/07/2020

Topic:


Topic author: warren
Subject: Velomobile 6
Posted on: 04/07/2009 15:35:46
Message:

Rick Wianecki is building a velomobile. He made many foam models to decide what he wanted the body to look like.



He will be documenting his build on this site as things progress.

-Warren.

Replies:


Reply author: rickmantoo
Replied on: 09/02/2009 08:54:43
Message:

Well I have been making progress on the frame for the velomobile. I will be getting together with Waren and starting a page with the complete build.



Rick


Reply author: rickmantoo
Replied on: 09/03/2009 08:03:06
Message:

Each of the front spindles slide in delrin bushings. There is a combination of a spring and a urethane bushing to provide the suspension. Right now I am using a medium rate spring that can be changed once I get the body mounted. The front wheels are 4406 and have drum brakes.



Rick W


Reply author: johntetz
Replied on: 10/04/2009 18:04:04
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by rickmantoo

Each of the front spindles slide in delrin bushings. There is a combination of a spring and a urethane bushing to provide the suspension. Right now I am using a medium rate spring that can be changed once I get the body mounted. The front wheels are 4406 and have drum brakes.



Rick W
Nice looking front suspension.
Looks like you have about a bit more than 1 inch of travel.

John Tetz


Reply author: rickmantoo
Replied on: 10/05/2009 16:56:14
Message:

John

Thanks for the reply, yes the suspension should have 1 1/2" of travel.

Rick w


Reply author: jnyyz
Replied on: 10/14/2009 14:54:44
Message:

Rick:

why can't you be the first to make a narrow track leaning delta based velomobile?

your former neighbour

Jun


Reply author: rickmantoo
Replied on: 03/06/2010 15:48:58
Message:

Well I have been working on the Velombile project some more.

I plotted and cut out foam sections for the fairing like I did for the F-n-L (now Attila) streamliner. Here are the section all cut out ready to be assembled.


After about two two hours of assembly.


This picture shows the electric assist trike in font of faring skeleton. The next step is covering the skeleton with strips of 1/2 inch foam to make the faring shell.


Reply author: Garrie L Hill
Replied on: 03/06/2010 16:47:38
Message:

Hey! Lookin' good, Rick.



Garrie "carbon based lifeform" Hill
HPRA Co-Dictator of the East
for pics of some of my time and money sucking projects
http://garriehill.winkflash.com/
and
http://s58.photobucket.com/albums/g277/cfbb/
and videos
http://vimeo.com/5513519



Reply author: rickmantoo
Replied on: 03/07/2010 14:35:41
Message:

I started to add the 1/2 inch foam strips today. I started on the bottom with 3 inch wide strips and worked my way up. when the curvature got tighter I changed to smaller strips.

Here is how it looks with the strips on the back side


I am adding a foam lip where the top section and bottom section meet.


Lots more to do!!!

Rick


Reply author: warren
Replied on: 03/07/2010 17:11:16
Message:

Wow it's starting to look like a real velomobile now!


Reply author: rickmantoo
Replied on: 03/14/2010 14:38:47
Message:

Well I worked on the foam body some more this weekend. It is taking me longer then I expected but it is turning out great.
Here is a view of the body from the left rear, I still need to carve the foam to shape the rear section.


Here is a view from the front. Now it is starting to look like a Velomobile.


Still have a little to do on the right side and a lot of sanding to bring out the final shape. I also need to order some fiberglass cloth and epoxy.


Rick W


Reply author: Garrie L Hill
Replied on: 03/15/2010 12:07:06
Message:

Wow! That really is quite nice. The strip built canoe technique is perfect for just this kind of thing.



Garrie "carbon based lifeform" Hill
HPRA Co-Dictator of the East
for pics of some of my time and money sucking projects
http://garriehill.winkflash.com/
and
http://s58.photobucket.com/albums/g277/cfbb/
and videos
http://vimeo.com/5513519



Reply author: rickmantoo
Replied on: 03/18/2010 15:36:46
Message:

I finished applying the 1/2" foam to the skeleton and then spent several hours sanding to get the shape I wanted.
This is looking at the rear of the body.


Looking from the front.


One of the front wheel opening


The next thing to do is cover the foam with 2 layers of 9 oz fiberglass cloth. I just happened to get a delivery from UPS.


Rick W


Reply author: raymondg
Replied on: 03/19/2010 08:58:24
Message:

Rick,

Nice work, thanks for sharing. I like your approach.

Have you thought about radiusing the leading edge of the aft portion of the wheel wheels, to eliminate the sharp step the air sees as it flows along the side of the fairing? Or are you going to fully enclose the wheel well?

Also, may I ask how you are attaching the foam ribs to the foam bulkheads? I'm assuming the ribs stay in the fairing for stiffness, but the bulkheads are removed somehow after glassing the outside mold line?

Raymond


Reply author: rickmantoo
Replied on: 03/19/2010 16:16:02
Message:

Well Dave Johnson came by today and we did some more work on the Velo body.
We started out by covering the most of the foam with one layer of 9 oz fiberglas. It was attached with spray glue.


We then cut the second layer of cloth and stacked the pieces and started from the back wetting out the first layer and then adding the second, working toward the front.


After several hours two 9 oz layers on the main part of the body.


Once this cures I will turn the body over and place two layers on the bottom and the inside of the wheel wells.

Raymond I will not be enclosing the wheels and have not considered radiusing the back of the wheel wells. I used 3M Super 77 spray glue to assemble most of the shell and skeleton (6 can so far), I also used some hot glue on the inside surfaces, I plan on removing most of the ribs and bulkheads since I am just interested in the shell. I will add a layer of fiberglass on selected surfaces on the inside of the shell.

Rick W


Reply author: warren
Replied on: 03/19/2010 18:19:29
Message:

Man Rick, you are cranking on it now!


Reply author: bowden
Replied on: 03/20/2010 11:15:30
Message:

hi Rick

you are moving right along.

one trick if you are interested and you may already know. after you wet the cloth out with epoxy cover it with nylon fabric real cheap stuff i get mine for about $1.50 a yard 54" wide. sqweegie it onto the cloth. leave it on while you are doing other work to protect the surface. once you peel it off it leaves the same surface as the textured weave of the nylon. it fills the weave in the FG cloth and makes for less sanding.

i did the velo like that.

velo looking very good.

electric larry


Reply author: rickmantoo
Replied on: 03/20/2010 13:13:46
Message:

Warren
Thanks: Still so far to go!!

Larry

I have a roll of nylon fabric, I will have to give it a try. Thanks for the tip!

Rick W


Reply author: bowden
Replied on: 03/20/2010 13:25:04
Message:

try the nylon out on a small part you are working on. make sure it peels off. some nylon has a coating on it.

on large compound areas you can cut it into smaller pieces so it doesn't pucker too much. saves a lot of time and saves doing a fill coat of epoxy. do you have an epoxy fairing putty or are you going to use micro balloons?

electric larry


Reply author: rickmantoo
Replied on: 03/20/2010 16:08:23
Message:

Well I got to work on the body a little today, I was able to flip it over and get the bottom section ready by precutting the fiberglass cloth. I hope to be able to get it epoxied tomorrow. I will not have any help.


Larry I have several bags of micro, I may just look for some light weight bondo after I prime with feather fill, not sure we will see how things go.

Rick W


Reply author: Upright Mike
Replied on: 03/21/2010 07:44:51
Message:

Wow - Rick, if you need help (or gawkers, paparazi, fans) for that matter I'm only 90 minutes away!
but unfortunately probably like yourself and Dave I'm stuck with that thing called a "real job" even on Sundays!
but I don't complain since my real job let us all "play" on a great big test track to smash 11 world HPV records last year!


Reply author: rickmantoo
Replied on: 03/21/2010 11:10:03
Message:

Finished up the bottom 2-layers of cloth today, did not take all at long. I added some peel ply I had in-stock after the second layer of cloth. Looks like it is going to work great. Thanks Larry for the tip.


Back to the office tomorrow and then work on Atilla next weekend, Progress is going to slow down some.

Mike, Come over when it is sanding time!!

Rick W


Reply author: rickmantoo
Replied on: 03/22/2010 17:36:17
Message:

So when I got home from work tonight, I removed the peel ply from the bottom section of the body.


It came up easy and left a very nice surface that will not need much additional work. Thanks Larry for the tip. Here is a picture of the underside at the nose you can see the difference in the surface between the peel ply side and no peel ply.


I flipped the body over and started to sand the surface There were several areas in the valley of the nose that the fabric bridged. I cut those out and relaid a couple layer of cloth and of course I am using peel ply on the outside.


I have some faring compound that I can mix with the epoxy, or I will look for some light weight bondo to refine the surface on areas I did not use the peel ply.

Rick W


Reply author: rickmantoo
Replied on: 03/23/2010 17:32:01
Message:

Today I decided to cut the removable top off and start adding the reinforcing strips to beef up the lip on the top and bottom section.
I first used some 1/8" carbon rods to mark the line that will be cut.


I then use a pull saw and a hacksaw blade to make the cut along the line.


Once the cut was made all around the top separated from the bottom.


Now I will be cutting foam wedges to reinforce the lip around the top and bottom before I add a layer or two of fiberglass to the lip and reinforcement.


Rick W


Reply author: raymondg
Replied on: 03/24/2010 08:19:05
Message:

Rick,

Nice work, your are moving very fast. The velomobile is looking very sweet.

I have a question. I find that RT epoxy can still cure a lot in the first week, even after the initial hardening. Do you think you might have a problem with shrinkage of the two halves since you split them so soon? Do you think it would help to leave the foam ribs in for a week or so until the epoxy has cured more and become more stable? I think it would manifest as a subtle pucker along the parting line.

I'm asking because I've had some such issues with "cured" parts before, but I am not sure of the cause. This is one of my theories. Another, of course, is that cutting relieves internal stresses in the reinforcing fibers that get introduced during the initial lay up and cure. Another would be that I usually post cure around 170 F, but with carbon parts in fiberglass molds, so a thermal growth differential is introduced.

Anyway, I would be interested in your thoughts.

Regards,
Raymond


Reply author: rickmantoo
Replied on: 03/24/2010 12:38:04
Message:

Raymond

Well it has been 4-days since I layed up the top part, with the West System I have not noticed any shrinkage on any of my other epoxy projects. It may have something to do with the foam core or not using any molds or I have been cold curing in the shop at night? It will still be a week or so before I get all the foam reinforcing in place and ready for the epoxy and glass the. I will then put the pieces back together and do the final fit and finish before I remove the internal sheleton and fit the frame. I plan on adding one layer of glass on the inside to seal up the foam after everything in put together.

Thanks for the comments

Rick W


Reply author: rickmantoo
Replied on: 03/26/2010 17:22:42
Message:

I spent some time today working on stiffening up the lip that will support the top of the velomobile. I added some wedges between the lip and the side of the body.


Here is a close up of what it looks like on the main tub. I will add a layer or two of fiberglass next. I need to figure out how I will hinge the top before I add reinforcing to the correct places.


Rick W


Reply author: warren
Replied on: 03/26/2010 20:42:23
Message:

Maybe a double arm setup so the entire top hinges up and forward?


Reply author: rickmantoo
Replied on: 03/27/2010 06:01:20
Message:

Warren
I am planning on having the top hinge sideways so I will be able to step in in front of the front cross tubes. All the velomobiles I have ridden require one to step on the seat and shimmy in I would like to get on the trike the same way with or without the body. That is why the step over at the front wheels is as low as possible.

Rick W


Reply author: rickmantoo
Replied on: 03/28/2010 15:47:37
Message:

Today I worked on making the hinges and preparing the top. I started out by bending some 1/2 x .035 wall cromoly tubing that will be the main part of the hinge.


I then added a tube that will have nylon bushings to act as the pivot. I brazed a shoulder bolt to 1" wide piece of steel to act as the pivot point. Here are the two partially completed hinges. I still need to add the parts that will attach then to the top. You can also see 2 wedges that will be bonded into the tub to help with hinge alignment


Here is where the hinge will be mounted to the tub, showing it in the top closed position.


Here is the top open position


I then worked on boxing in the top where the hinges will be mounted. I will add some carbon fiber to stiffen up there locations before I bond in the mounting hardware.


I also laid out where the head opening is going to be on the top.


The next step is to lay up the lips on the tub & the top and get the hinges mounted.

Rick W


Reply author: rickmantoo
Replied on: 03/29/2010 16:25:37
Message:

Worked on the main tub today. I added carbon to reinforce the hinge area.


and then added fiberglass to the boxed in lip to stiffen the top of the tub section.


Once everything cures I will remove the remainder of the skeleton and start figuring out how to mount the frame to the body.

Rick W


Reply author: rickmantoo
Replied on: 03/30/2010 18:13:03
Message:

So today I wanted to get the pin plates for the hinges glued to the tub. I remover the peel ply from the lip area and prepared the area where the hinge plates will be bonded.
I cleaned up the pin plates and drilled some holes to help the plates stick.


I then mixed up some epoxy and some flox into a paste to use to stick the pin plates to the tub.


I then glued the pin plates to the tub and used some scrap foam to hold things in place.


Here is a picture of the lower tub with the rest of the foam skeleton removed.


Rick W


Reply author: rickmantoo
Replied on: 03/31/2010 17:56:32
Message:

Didn't do much today except clean up to be ready to make the final push to complete the velomobile.
I reassembled the top and bottom sections and placed them on 4 3/4 inch foam blocks to simulate the final fairing height.

From the side


and from the front



Reply author: warren
Replied on: 04/01/2010 06:37:02
Message:

Great progress Rick! It looks like a real velomobile now. What color will it be? (and please don't say white) Were you able to get some of the stiction out of the front suspension?

-Warren.


Reply author: OpusthePoet
Replied on: 04/01/2010 11:26:47
Message:

I'm more concerned about steering lock, or to be precise the lack of it. What is your turning radius when your tires are rubbing the fenderwells?

Opus

My gas is up to $.99 a burrito, $5.99 for premium and I'm only getting 20 miles to the regular burrito.


Reply author: MartinQS
Replied on: 04/01/2010 13:08:36
Message:

Wow great peice of work credit to you i was ib the process of building farings but thought that a velomobile shell making moulds for the fibre glass to far out of my reach at the moment Now seeing your excellent work has set me off

Martin


Reply author: MartinQS
Replied on: 04/01/2010 13:29:36
Message:

What type of polysterene did you use to create the ribs?

Martin


Reply author: raymondg
Replied on: 04/02/2010 11:38:22
Message:

Martin,
Since no once has chimed in on your question I will answer it. The pink foam is a closed cell polystyrene home insulation foam available from large home improvement centers here in the US (and Canada?), like Home Depot, Lowe's etc. It's usually available in thicknesses like 1/2, 3/4, and 1 inch. There are also similar foams that are blue, but some are cast (?) like the pink (easy to work) and some are extruded (harder to work). You can get a tan foil faced foam at such places too, but they are not polystyrene, and should be avoided because they are hard to work and have fiberglass embedded in them which becomes a huge irritant when you cut and sand it.

Just remember you have to use epoxy with polystyrenes, as polyester and vinyl ester resins will attach it (melt it). It's even risky to puting a polyester layer over an epoxy layer, as layups can sometimes be quite porous, and I have seen polyester resins (and other solvents in paints)melt polystyrene foam THROUGH a fully cured layer of epoxy/fiberglass.

Hope this helps,
Raymond


Reply author: jpsantell
Replied on: 04/02/2010 12:07:37
Message:

Rick, That body is all sorts of awesome. I love the WAW look. Would you be willing to share your pattern? I've been contemplating building a WAW styled velomobile myself and this would be as great start.


Reply author: MartinQS
Replied on: 04/03/2010 01:47:27
Message:

Thanks for getting back to me one more question what grams per square metre fibre glass cloth is 9oz equal to thanks

Martin


Reply author: MartinQS
Replied on: 04/03/2010 04:41:54
Message:

What resin catalist etc do i ask for from my fibre glass supplier to use on polystyrene

Martin


Reply author: rickmantoo
Replied on: 04/04/2010 06:53:53
Message:

Martin

Thanks for the interest, sorry for the delay. I have been out of town and away from my computer. So far this has been a fun project and I like the way things are turning out.

Epoxy is the only type of resin to use on polystyrene. I use the West System epoxy #105 resin and either #205 or #206 hardener. I get it from a home/kit built aircraft supplier.

As for converting the weight of cloth to grams /sq. meter,use one on the on line converters to do it. 9 oz is a medium weight cloth. Get a cloth that will conform to curves.


Reply author: rickmantoo
Replied on: 04/04/2010 07:03:46
Message:

jpsantell

Thanks for the interest, I also like the WAW and the Mango and the Go One and....
I wanted a velomobile that I could get in a little easer and one that has a separate frame to make it easer to modify since this is the first fixed trike that I have built.

When Warren and I create a page for this project I will post the design drawings and patterns I used to create this vehicle.
(maybe in a month or so, maybe)

Rick W


Reply author: rickmantoo
Replied on: 04/04/2010 07:10:48
Message:

Warren

What is with it on the color thing? The first thing Garrie asked me is " What color is it going to be". For now it will be primer gray, but I am leaning toward the blues and greens.

Yes after riding the frame a few miles the stiction is gone from the front suspension. I will be going up in the spring rate to see if makes the trike better in the corners.

Rick W


Reply author: rickmantoo
Replied on: 04/04/2010 07:15:18
Message:

Opus

I have not measured the radius, right now the wheels hit the front of the seat at maximum turn. The wheel wells are 6 inches deep in the body. And I have to narrow the front of the seat some( about 1 inch) to get it to fit in the body. We will see.

Rick W


Reply author: MartinQS
Replied on: 04/04/2010 11:00:12
Message:

Great many thanks good luck with the build carn`t wait to see her finished

Martin


Reply author: melovelo
Replied on: 04/04/2010 13:08:45
Message:

You have a really beautiful design there!

When you use the nylon to smooth out the epoxy, is it reusable, or is that only good for a single use? Could you use a plastic film instead?

Will you melt out all of the polystyrene, or will you leave some in to quiet the ride?

Terry


Reply author: rickmantoo
Replied on: 04/04/2010 15:38:52
Message:

Terry
The peel ply is a one shot thing. I think you could use some plastic but it will not let the excess resin bleed through.

I will leave the foam in to provide additional stiffness to the shell.

Rick W


Reply author: rickmantoo
Replied on: 04/04/2010 15:59:58
Message:

Today I worked on getting the frame in the bottom body shell.

I first measured where parts of the frame will be sticking out the bottom of the shell. When I revise the frame most of the slots will be filled in. I believe there was a glitch with my CAD program that caused this issue.


Then I laid out the location for the cuts and cut the slots in the bottom of the shell.


I flipped the shell over and took the front wheels off the trike and tried to slide the frame in the tub. With the rear wheel on I could turn the frame enough to get the front end into the wheel wells.


Once I took the rear wheel off I was able to get the frame in the body shell.


Next I will make all the mounts to attach the frame to the shell. I will also modify the steering to side stick from the current center mount as well as a couple of additional mods to the frame. Now it is really starting to look like a velomobile.


Rick W


Reply author: OpusthePoet
Replied on: 04/06/2010 22:50:10
Message:

I realize this is a little late, but if you 'glass inside and outside the foam shell you could have dispensed with the steel frame and weight. You could probably just used a 'glass over foam backbone to hang the drive train from and similarly constructed crossbeam to hang the sliding post suspension from, or an arch to support the sliding pillar from above like a MacPherson strut. You would just have had to make the seat mount with enough clearance underneath to let the chain run through.

Opus

My gas is up to $.99 a burrito, $5.99 for premium and I'm only getting 20 miles to the regular burrito.


Reply author: rickmantoo
Replied on: 04/07/2010 07:17:52
Message:

Opus
Thanks for the comment
Yes one could easily make this body monocoque, I have built several tub bikes before using this process so I know it will work. For this project I wanted a removable frame so I could make changes to the drive train and electric assist easier and also use the trike without the body. Since this is my first fixed trike and my first attempt of integrating electric assist I knew I was going to have to make changes to something.

Rick W

And it is not to late for me to do exactly what you suggested, I would just need to fill in the holes I cut with some foam and...


Reply author: LongJohn
Replied on: 04/07/2010 07:30:11
Message:

Rick,

Awesome looking Velomobile.
You have done this in a record time (my "baby" took 9 months...). And its a "bute"!

I hope to get my Velomobile to the painter before summer.

But first; I can pick up my Nazca Gaucho highracer this saturday!!!

Thomas


Reply author: vhclbldr
Replied on: 04/07/2010 08:51:22
Message:

wow... I mean.. WOW!
Dude, that design totally rocks. I may be following your example to the letter when I build the body for my velo, too.

I especially like how you planned for entry/exit with stepping in front of the axle (my tadbent will require the same entry/exit plan, too).

What were the dimensions (contact patch) of your tadpole? (wheelbase and track)

Again, fantastic job!

Jamieson
Builder of Tadpole Recumbent w/ Electric-assist
Bel Air, MD (USA)


Reply author: rickmantoo
Replied on: 04/07/2010 11:57:55
Message:

Thomas

Thanks for the comment. I have a long way to go before it will be finished, 9 mo. does not seam all that long for a project like yours. I am not even thinking about sanding and paint. You know the 8-20 rule, it just looks like I am getting somewhere.

So what color are you going to paint the "brute"

Rick W


Reply author: rickmantoo
Replied on: 04/07/2010 12:08:19
Message:

Jamieson
Thanks for the complement. I went through a lot of iterations to get the design to where it was buildable with the mold-less method. I will be posting the patterns and templates when Warren and I(mostly I, Warren has been waiting)create a page for the complete build.

The trike has a 27 in. track and a 50 in. wheelbase.

Rick W


Reply author: jpsantell
Replied on: 04/08/2010 03:11:28
Message:

Rick, I read somewhere that you are big, like 6' 6" is this going to be a tight fit for you?


Reply author: LongJohn
Replied on: 04/08/2010 03:48:08
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by jpsantell

Rick, I read somewhere that you are big, like 6' 6" is this going to be a tight fit for you?



BRING IT TO BATTLE MOUNTAIN!!!!!

Thomas (6' 6" 6mm)


Reply author: rickmantoo
Replied on: 04/08/2010 06:03:48
Message:

Jpsantell

You have me confused with Thomas. I am a tad under 5'-10" and getting shorter.

Thomas
BM maybe? Got to geter done first.

Rick W


Reply author: raymondg
Replied on: 04/08/2010 08:35:22
Message:

Rick, if you are worried about getting it done in time for Battle Mountain, then cover it with a tarp, don't touch it until Aug, and then work 24/7 for a month. That's how the rest of us do it

Very nice work by the way. This is my new favorite thread.

Raymond


Reply author: rickmantoo
Replied on: 04/08/2010 08:51:51
Message:

Raymond

I am glad you like the project. It is moving allong nicely.

Now that I have the frame almost mounted in the bottom of the shell, I am thinking about what you said earler about the trailing edge of the wheel well. With the wheel in the wheel well, I can see the shape of the wheel well and it neesd to be a little smoother on the trailing edge. I may want to modify he rear edge like you sugested by adding some foam on the inside and reshaping the body. It is only time and a little foam and fiberglass. Do you have any reference pictures of what the modified shape you sugested would look like?

Rick W


Reply author: OleBent1
Replied on: 04/08/2010 13:15:51
Message:

Rick,

I've been lurking around (occasionally) for a while on this forum, but I've been actively watching this thread for a while now, and now feel compelled to join in. Way cool job on the trike and shell! Very impressive!

I agree with Raymond's observation on the wheel well detail. I think what he's suggesting is a lot like what is done on the insides of open aircraft cavities (like internal weapons bays) to reduce both cavity pressure oscillations (that low frequency drumming sound you hear on some cars when just the back windows are open) as well as extra drag due to the air trying to decide whether it wants to go into or out of the open cavity. By rounding the back edge of the wheel well, it helps entrain the air within the well into the "freestream" air flowing just beyond the wheel well. The same effect can be accomplished with a sloped or ramped rear edge. In the most aggressive cases, rear bay walls have a ramp that extends inward to about half the cavity depth, but I don't think you'll need anything that severe to see benefit in your application. I'm guessing that if you radius the back edge to about 1/4 to 1/3 the depth of the wheel well, that ought to do it.

The other thing you could consider is to install wheel discs on the outside of the front wheels. This "should" help avoid disturbing the nearby airflow as is goes over the wheel well. Hard to say how well the two will work in combination, mainly because of how the bottom side of the open well may interact with the air flowing under the velo. I'm guessing the combination will both reduce drag and may actually make a slightly quieter ride. As I think was pointed out earlier in the thread, the shell probably makes a pretty good acoustic transmitter.

Keep up the great work...looking forward to more posted progress!



Mike

Cruzbike Sofrider V2.1


Reply author: Dreamer
Replied on: 04/08/2010 17:05:54
Message:

Rick,

I'll second what Raymond said. If you wait till you get it "done" you might not make it to Battle Mountain for 3 or 4 years or more. Read Raymond's story about his first trip to B.M. with his machine. I suspect that experience has been instrumental in his current success.

If you need more encouragement check out the pictures of the first Spectre we took to B.M. She had coroplast fairings held together with packaging tape and the gaps were covered with cloth and duct tape. We worked on her every day, fine tuning, learning, experimenting and creating but at the end of the week, we had run and that is what this exciting, crazy sport is really all about.

For what it's worth, we learned so much that we scrapped the first machine and started over with the results that we weren't finished with the Specter 2 when we took her to B.M. last year.

Do the best you can. If she's road worthy don't be afraid to bring what you build.


Reply author: rickmantoo
Replied on: 04/08/2010 17:30:10
Message:

Raymond and Mike
If I understand you guys correctly I should cut in to the trailing side of the wheel well and add a 2-3 inch radius curve in the area marked in red on the attached picture and then blend it back into the body curve 6-8 inches back.


Rick W


Reply author: rickmantoo
Replied on: 04/08/2010 17:32:34
Message:

Dreamer

Thanks for the encouragement Garrie Hill has been after me to get out to BM this year also.

Rick W


Reply author: Upright Mike
Replied on: 04/08/2010 18:04:05
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by jpsantell

Rick, I read somewhere that you are big, like 6' 6" is this going to be a tight fit for you?

quote:
Originally posted by rickmantoo

Jpsantell
You have me confused with Thomas. I am a tad under 5'-10" and getting shorter.
Thomas
BM maybe? Got to geter done first.
Rick W


The 6'6" person is Frank Geyer (actually he's about 6'4") whom Rick built his last streamliner for...

Frank


Here is Rick... pictured in center with arms raised in triumph!


Reply author: Upright Mike
Replied on: 04/08/2010 18:15:49
Message:

And then there are some REAL giants in this group! I don't know how they fit in streamliners! Thomas on Right.

From BATTLE MOUNTAIN 2008 ALBUM: Some really really tall folks: (left to right) Chuck Royalty, new Trike WORLD RECORD holder; Gordon - a cyclist from Canada who came down to join the Varna crew; Warren Beauchamp - Cuda-W pilot and webmaster; Hans Wessels - SpeedHawk rider who went 73.5 mph during the week; and Thomas van Schaik - who went a personal best 62 mph on his one trial run in the SpeedHawk he says his height is about 6'6" 6 mm.


Carol Leone jumps in the picture with some really really tall people!


Reply author: Upright Mike
Replied on: 04/08/2010 18:25:55
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by rickmantoo

Dreamer
Thanks for the encouragement Garrie Hill has been after me to get out to BM this year also.
Rick W


Rick - if you need a driving companion from our Great state of Michigan to Battle Mountain, let me know! With a stop-over in Iowa Sept 11-12 for the HPRA races there, then its another 1500 miles to Battle Moutain.


Reply author: raymondg
Replied on: 04/08/2010 20:45:39
Message:

Rick,
I was thinking something like the pix below. The renderings would be of the starboard side. Rather than a simple radius, I was thinking a 2:1 ellipse to allow a cleaner transition of flow along the side (and bottom) of the vehicle in the vicinity of the wheel well:

-Raymond




Reply author: LongJohn
Replied on: 04/09/2010 01:14:43
Message:

Raymond,

Allert tried to do something similar with the STRADA:

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_PUYDavQs6vc/S1eFpXRvBfI/AAAAAAAAABQ/vTW5_Ol3vAw/s1600-h/DSC00928.JPG

If you make the "arc" to extreme you get alot of spray when riding in the rain...

So it will be a weighing between aerodynamics and cleanliness of the bike and rider.

Thomas (My VM is really narrow <20", with the frontweheels sticking out. Allthough I have fenders on the front wheels I don't like the look, therefor planning on adding 1930's pick up type fenders).


Reply author: alevand
Replied on: 04/09/2010 04:53:08
Message:

Watching the car next to you in the rain on the interstate give an idea why the radius reduces drag.

C:
Tony Levand


Reply author: OleBent1
Replied on: 04/09/2010 07:43:06
Message:

Rick,

Raymond's rendering above looks great. Consider applying the same kind of blending at the bottom edge/corner too. That should help clean up the flow a little more going under the flat bottom.

By comparison, keeping the "sharp" edges around the rear of the wheel well tends to make the flow enter and exit the well in a unsteady manner, then that unsteady flow just continues to cause issues downstream where you would ideally like the flow to stay attached and clean going around the back of the fairing. Attention to details like this tends to help clean up the flow over a larger part of the back end than you might think.


Mike

Cruzbike Sofrider V2.1


Reply author: raymondg
Replied on: 04/09/2010 08:07:05
Message:

Thomas,
Interesting, what is this "rain" you talk about? Seriously, it sounds like a fender might be good regardless. Of course, the fender could be integrated into the shape of the wheel well somehow, maybe by extruding a small section parallel to the ground straight out, starting at the 12 o'clock position and extending aft as far as necessary.

Mike,
I actually did that in the model, but it is hard to see in the two angles I rendered. My thought there was that the bottom transitions might not need to be as extreme as the sides, since the wheel is not steering in that plane.

-Raymond


Reply author: OleBent1
Replied on: 04/09/2010 09:40:46
Message:

Raymond,

Okay, I see it now that I know to look for it.

I'm thinking that 98% of the time, the wheel steering angle will be nearly zero, so steering angle is probably not a significant design consideration for this. Gut feel is that the bottom blend should be similar to the sides. Flow interactions between the belly and the ground can propagate aft from an open cavity in much the same way as the sides, although having a flat bottom all the way back (like Rick has) will result in fewer bad effects overall. It's probably more a "designer's choice" thing for Rick, based on how much internal volume he has in that area and how much effort he wants to apply to this.

I'm fairly certain I'm over-thinking and over-engineering this (but it's what I do...)



Mike
(Cruzbike Sofrider V2.1)


Reply author: rickmantoo
Replied on: 04/09/2010 09:49:35
Message:

Raymond/Thomas/Mike/Tony,Great information.

Raymond ,Very nice rendering.Thomas great tip about the rain thing, it has been doing that allot lately.

After I got the frame in the body and put the front wheels on I could see the problem with the shape. It has a lot to do with the foam wedge I added at the lower corner. So when I get back to working on the body I will remove the wedge and radius the corners like in the following picture.


Not very radical but this is a commuter vehicle not a racer. I will be adding wheel covers at lest on the outside of the front wheels.
Rick W


Reply author: rickmantoo
Replied on: 04/09/2010 10:05:33
Message:

Today I worked on making the body mounts. I decided that I will have one mount to the front



and a mount to the backside of the wheel wells and one up higher in the body just behind the rear seat mount.


The mounts are bent from 1/8"x1' 6061 aluminum with a nutsert added to provide the threads These brackets will be bonded into the body shell to provide attachment points for the aluminum struts coming from the frame.



Before I bond any of the aluminum parts I etch them to remove any oxidation to insure a strong bond. Here are the brackets etching away.



Next I will make the brackets that attach to the frame to connect to the aluminum struts

Rick W




Reply author: rickmantoo
Replied on: 04/12/2010 09:40:42
Message:

Worked some more on mounting the frame to the body. The 3/4" square aluminum struts were attached with some rubber bushings to help reduce the vibrations.


I next worked on some chain management issues. The return chain tensioner had to be removed to fit the frame into the body so I made a bracket to attach a smaller idler to at the location of the power idler. I can rotate the bracket to get the right amount of tension on the chain.


Next I need to remove the frame from the body and attach the brackets to the frame that will bolt to the 3/4" struts. I need to cut the foot hole or holes in the front, reattach the body and the frame and take her out for a test ride before I finish up on the remainder of the fiberglass work.






Reply author: 25hz
Replied on: 04/12/2010 10:07:18
Message:

Hey Rick, are you planning to use a simple U joint like many of the commercial velomobiles do to solve your steering joint issue you mentioned briefly before?


Reply author: rickmantoo
Replied on: 04/12/2010 13:35:52
Message:

Tim
Interesting that you would ask that question because today I was looking at the u-joints in my tool box. I have not looked at McMaster yet to see if they have any off the shelf ones that will work before I start to make one out of chunks of aluminum. I will also be cutting down the width of the handlebar. This picture is of the extra handle bar width when the wheels are turned full lock.


Rick W


Reply author: 25hz
Replied on: 04/14/2010 04:25:10
Message:

Not to worry Rick, I have a spare prototype you can have for free if you're going to Indy. I can bring the pieces down for you if you like. It's designed to fit inside the standard OD/ID handlebar tubing, something like 7/8" OD with ~.063" wall. Not sure on those dimensions though as I haven't measured it in a while.


Reply author: LongJohn
Replied on: 04/14/2010 04:30:12
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by 25hz

Not to worry Rick, I have a spare prototype you can have for free if you're going to Indy. I can bring the pieces down for you if you like. It's designed to fit inside the standard OD/ID handlebar tubing, something like 7/8" OD with ~.063" wall. Not sure on those dimensions though as I haven't measured it in a while.



Do you think it changed over time Tim?

And yes, that can happen; I've seen sheetmetal "grow" to double thickness due to corrosion...

Thomas


Reply author: 25hz
Replied on: 04/14/2010 07:27:01
Message:

Ahhh hah ha ha . . . Yer a funny dude, dude :) I tend to not remember things that I can just check or measure later.


Reply author: rickmantoo
Replied on: 04/14/2010 08:36:30
Message:

Tim

That would be great, I have several (hundred) other things that need to be done on the vehicle, so I will skip that one for a while. I would like to get the frame and tub working together before Indy,

Rick W

PS, the size does not matter


Reply author: 25hz
Replied on: 04/14/2010 10:02:37
Message:

Roger that, I'll bring it along then.


Reply author: LongJohn
Replied on: 04/14/2010 10:42:42
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by 25hz

Roger that, I'll bring it along then.



Please bring your calipers to make sure it's still the same size when you get there...



Thomas


Reply author: 25hz
Replied on: 04/14/2010 11:42:50
Message:

I need to remember which calipers I used though, they're different sizes too . . .


Reply author: rickmantoo
Replied on: 04/15/2010 10:12:19
Message:

The velomobile is on it's own wheels for the first time. I brazed the mounting tabs on the frame and re assembled the lower tub to the frame. I also decided to make the seat tiltable so I can get to the battery and other things in the bottom. Here is the seat tilted forward, you can also see the rear mount.


Here is the lower tub and the frame on the ground for the first time.


Here it is with the top added, It is really looking good.


I sat in the vehicle and marked out where the foot holes need to be. I will cut them out next next and start putting the inner layer of fiberglass on the body.

Rick W


Reply author: rickmantoo
Replied on: 04/15/2010 13:53:33
Message:

I cut out the hole in the top section of the body.


Here I am going 120 MPH (In my mind)


Rick W


Reply author: rickmantoo
Replied on: 04/17/2010 14:13:18
Message:

So I have been able to sit in the vehicle and check clearance and other things. After looking at a side view picture, I decided to change the back turtle deck so it was closer to the back of my helmet and also make it easer to mount my version of the Felvo roof.

Here is a side view with me in the velomobile.


So I mocked up several back sections to see how I liked them.

First mock up still a little smaller then I would like. The carbon rod is used to simulate the approx. roof line.


Second mock up


I decided that the new back needed to blend back further. here is my first attempt.


I did not like how it was turning out so I redid it slightly smaller with a little more curve to it.


Rick W


Reply author: rickmantoo
Replied on: 04/17/2010 14:30:18
Message:

After I reshaped the back and before I broke out the epoxy and fiberglass, I got out the sanders and reshaped the front wheel wells. I tried to get it close to what was discussed earlier in the build.
Here is one of the modified wheel wells.


I removed the frame from the body and finished up trimming the openings on the bottom. I decided to cut one large foot opening instead of two smaller ones. I will eventually make some covers for of the chain line openings.


Next more fun with epoxy

Rick W


Reply author: rickmantoo
Replied on: 04/18/2010 16:50:57
Message:

Today I prepared the inside of the tub section for a layer of 9 oz fiberglass cloth At locations where I cut through the tub I beveled back the foam so I could get the inside layer of fiberglass to attach to the outside layer of fiberglass. That will stiffen things up nicely. I also added 45 degree bevels to the inside corners so the cloth would lay better.

Here is a picture of the inside of the tub just before I started to place the fiberglass cloth.


Next I lightly tacked (with spray glue) the fiberglass cloth the the inside of the tub. At this point I ran out of 9 oz cloth ( I ordered 15 yards to begin with) so I will need to order some more to the finish up.


After I wetted the cloth out I placed some weights to make sure the bottom of the tub would be flat against the work table while the epoxy cures. This should keep the bottom of the tub flat. The table is an old kitchen countertop on some saw horses.


I will order some more cloth tomorrow to keep the project moving along.

Rick W



Reply author: 25hz
Replied on: 04/19/2010 04:58:58
Message:

Man, that's awesome looking. By the looks of it, you might be able to rival the Cannon in his Quest. :) So, about the U-joint, I figured out what "small" item I'd like in trade/barter for the U-joint. I think you can guess . . . :)


Reply author: rickmantoo
Replied on: 04/19/2010 06:12:26
Message:

Tim
Ok I will bring one of the small steel angles I used for weights in the picture I think that is what you are refering to for trade, right? I will not be bring the body to Indy this weekend still to much to do on it.

Rick


Reply author: warren
Replied on: 04/19/2010 06:28:11
Message:

Rick has several of those small angle weights. I think they fell off a bridge somewhere...


Reply author: rickmantoo
Replied on: 04/19/2010 07:23:14
Message:

Warren

Dan Ryan in Chicago, You should see(or try to move) my 24 x 36 x 1 1/4
steel plate

Rick W


Reply author: raymondg
Replied on: 04/19/2010 08:38:51
Message:

Rick,

Sweet work, thanks for your continued sharing. Putting all the 45 deg bevel pieces on the inside is a great idea. It's hard to tell from the pic how much rounding you did to the aft part of the wheel well. As was noted earlier in the thread, you may want to round the bottom leading edge of the aft part of the wheel wells for the same reasons.

Raymond


Reply author: rickmantoo
Replied on: 04/19/2010 10:50:29
Message:

Raymond

Thanks for looking and offering your great tips. As I was modifying the corners of the wheel wells I rounded them as much as I thought would look good. This is not a Battle Mountain vehicle, but hopefuly a daily driver. Please keep offering great sugestions.

Rick W


Reply author: stevegek
Replied on: 04/19/2010 10:54:09
Message:

Just want to say it looks awesome, keep the pictures coming. :-)

________________
Hiiiiiii! =D


Reply author: 25hz
Replied on: 04/19/2010 11:20:50
Message:

Are you also going to be clever and mould your lights and rear view mirrors into the body now too or will they be predominantly surface mounts?


Reply author: rickmantoo
Replied on: 04/19/2010 12:32:36
Message:

Tim
I do not want to be accused of being clever but at this time I have not thoght about those items yet. We will see once I get it opperational where everything needs to be. I should start looking for some mirrors that will work. Maybe something like what is used on the Quest.

Rick W


Reply author: rickmantoo
Replied on: 04/19/2010 12:35:31
Message:

Stevegek

More Pictures, I have over 700 for this project on my computer at home. I will keep then coming as I go along. Thanks for looking

Rick W


Reply author: JimFPU
Replied on: 04/20/2010 04:59:28
Message:

OK, Rick, how much will the CD of the whole build cost? I love the details...and I could use the help...I may try and make some of mine Zombie style, combined with yours...

Infinity LWB
Various Atomic Zombie homebuilts


Reply author: rickmantoo
Replied on: 04/20/2010 10:36:22
Message:

Jim FPU

I have no plans on producing any plans or a CD of this project. I will be creating a page on the WISIL site (I know Warren I keep saying this) with more details of the complete build including the drawings I used to create this project.

Rick W


Reply author: JimFPU
Replied on: 04/20/2010 11:05:57
Message:

I really wans't expecting that, just at around 700 pics that's a lot to post!! LOL!

Infinity LWB
Various Atomic Zombie homebuilts


Reply author: rickmantoo
Replied on: 04/20/2010 12:03:13
Message:

Atualy I checked last night and there were 836 pictures in the velomobile directory.

Rick W


Reply author: rickmantoo
Replied on: 04/21/2010 17:02:16
Message:

Got to love UPS I got a shipment in tonight. Another 10 yards. Back to work,


Rick W


Reply author: JimFPU
Replied on: 04/22/2010 08:47:35
Message:

Rick what would you estimate the shell alone is costing?

Infinity LWB
Various Atomic Zombie homebuilts


Reply author: rickmantoo
Replied on: 04/22/2010 11:16:23
Message:

JimFPU

7 sheets of foam $70
8 cans of spray glue $80
20 yards of 9 oz cloth @ $9/yd $189
1.5 gallon of epoxy and hardener @ $135/gallon $203

About $542 . Plus miscellaneous stuff like sandpaper, mixing cups $150

Say about $700 before finish and paint

Rick W


Reply author: rickmantoo
Replied on: 04/22/2010 14:51:30
Message:

I finished adding one layer of fiberglass ti the inside of the shell. I also glassed over the reshaped areas at the wheel wells.


I next turned my attention to the top. I added a 1 x 1/2" piece of foam around the head opening. I used pieces of duct tape to hold in position while the glue set.



Once the glue set I started to round the foam over get rid of any sharp edges.


Next I need to add a layer of fiberglass to the newly rounded lip and the underside of the top.

Rick W


Reply author: raymondg
Replied on: 04/22/2010 15:25:40
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by rickmantoo

JimFPU

7 sheets of foam $70
8 cans of spray glue $80
20 yards of 9 oz cloth @ $9/yd $189
1.5 gallon of epoxy and hardener @ $135/gallon $203

About $542 . Plus miscellaneous stuff like sandpaper, mixing cups $150

Say about $700 before finish and paint

Rick W

Rick,

Where are you buying your cloth? I usually get mine from http://www.uscomposites.com/cloth.html, so I pay about $6.50/yd.

Also, don't ignore shipping costs and taxes in your estimate if applicable. I find they can easily add another C bill or three depending on the size of the project.

As always, thanks for sharing. Still my favorite build log.

Raymond


Reply author: rickmantoo
Replied on: 04/22/2010 16:41:43
Message:

Raymond
I got the epoxy and the cloth from Wicks Aircraft. Foam and glue from Home Depot

Rick W


Reply author: Dreamer
Replied on: 04/22/2010 19:39:58
Message:

Just a note on glueing foam. Foam joints glued with Gorilla Glue will shear the material before the glued joint will fail. The only problem I've encountered is that, when filing or sanding, the joint is tougher than the surrounding foam so it likes to stand proud of the surface.


Reply author: raymondg
Replied on: 04/23/2010 09:19:01
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by Dreamer

Just a note on glueing foam. Foam joints glued with Gorilla Glue will shear the material before the glued joint will fail. The only problem I've encountered is that, when filing or sanding, the joint is tougher than the surrounding foam so it likes to stand proud of the surface.


That raises a question Rick, it is unclear to me how you bonded the foam planks to the sections originally. From the pic, and your BOM, it sounds like you used spray tack adhesive? I would not have thought that would hold well enough. Obviously it did

-Raymond


Reply author: rickmantoo
Replied on: 04/23/2010 10:54:08
Message:

Dreamer

I have tried different glues in the past and I want one that does not affect the sanding of the finished shape. One may have to sand all the way through the foam at some spot so a harder glue joint will not work for me.

Raymond
The 3M 77 glue is applied lightly to the both edges and allowed to sit for a couple of minuted before the edges are pressed together. Glue is also sprayed on the ribs and the back where the strips meet the ribs. One can not put the glue on too heavy because the carrier attacks the foam. I went through 8 cans with this project and only used 4 cans to build the F-n-L now Atilla streamliner.

One needs to be careful with the shell until the outside layer of cloth is epoxied on because the glue joints tend to be a little fragile. This is why I leave the inner skeleton in until after the outside has received it's cloth surface.

This is what I use and it works for me. There must be other and better products but I have not searched them out.

Rick W


Reply author: raymondg
Replied on: 04/23/2010 15:42:52
Message:

Thanks for the reply Rick. I can't tell from the pix whether you bevel the edges of the section to match the surface curvature or not. If yes, how do you keep everything aligned to the right shape and not get waves, and if no, how do you deal with the small bond area that results from planks just hitting one edge of the sections?

-Raymond


Reply author: rickmantoo
Replied on: 04/23/2010 16:34:22
Message:

Raymond

When I did the F-n-L I used a cove and round over. On this project I used a hand sander and beveled each strip to fit. I think the cove and round over was a little less work but the shape of the streamliner did not have all the shape changes that the velomobile body has. Once all the strip are fitted I go over the entire body shape and blend everything in. That is why I want to be able to sand across the glue joints.

Rick W


Reply author: rickmantoo
Replied on: 04/24/2010 13:41:27
Message:

I decided not go to the races in Indy so I could work on the velomobile.

I sanded and added bevels to inside of the top to get it ready for a layer of fiberglass.


Here is a picture of a 45 degree bevel that I added to the underside of the lip at the head cut out. I still need to round the lip and blend it in.


Since I will be working on the top upside down, I added 3 pieces of duct tape from side to side to keep the top from spreading. I will only be glassing about 1/2 of the inside this time.


Here is a picture of the top after the fiberglass has been wetted out with the peal ply added.


I only did about 1/2 of the inside of the top because I noticed that I installed the hinge pins so I will not be able to remove the top without unbolting it. I want to be able to slide the top off the hinge pins to remove it. Here is a picture of the hinge pins as installed. They are pointing in opposite directions. I will reposition the front pin so it will be orientated toward the back like the rear pin.




Reply author: alevand
Replied on: 04/25/2010 06:25:27
Message:

Rick,

Have you tried 3M 78 spray adhesive made for gluing EPS?

C:
Tony Levand


Reply author: rickmantoo
Replied on: 04/25/2010 13:04:48
Message:

Tony
No I have not seen 78, I will do a web search, Thanks.

Rick W


Reply author: rickmantoo
Replied on: 04/25/2010 16:51:05
Message:

Tony the 3M 78 looks like some good stuff. I will have to try it on the next project.

Rick W


Reply author: rickmantoo
Replied on: 04/25/2010 17:02:00
Message:

Today I did some clean up and the took a step backwards.
I first removed the peel ply from the inside of the top.


So far the top section is looking good, I test fitted it to the tub and the duct tape did it's job the alignment looks good, I then removed any epoxy that got into the body mounting bracket threads. I used a tap mounted to a drill driver.


I then removed the front hinge pin and reconfigured the mounting location.


I cleaned everything up and added carbon fiber and fiberglass. Here it is before I added the epoxy.


Next I will reattach the hinge pin.

Rick W


Reply author: rickmantoo
Replied on: 04/26/2010 17:13:28
Message:

Tonight I bonded in the realigned front hinge pin plate.

I attached the hinges together on a piece of 1 inch square stock to help get the front hinge aligned with the back.


I then attached the hinge pin plate to the front hinge.


I mixes up a batch of flox and epoxy and stuck it all together.


Once this cures I will recheck the alignment of the hinges to the top and install the top mounting plates and also finish up the inside layer of fiberglass to the top. In the mean time I will work on some mods to the frame and seat.

Rick W


Reply author: rickmantoo
Replied on: 04/28/2010 17:23:30
Message:

The front hinge plated bonded in very nicely, so now I need to transfer the location for the hinge mounting plates to the top of the body.

I attached the aluminum mounting plate to the hinge with longer bolts and sprayed the bolts with some paint to help visually with the locating.


I then used a couple of pieces of 1 inch foam to prop the hinge in a partially open position.


I then with some help gently placed the top on the lower section and pressed down lightly at the hinges. I then removed the top to reveal where the hinge mounting plates needed to be mounted.


I then carved out the foam so the mounting plates could recessed slightly. This is one of the reasons I did not glass the entire inside of the top.


Here is the mounting plate waiting for glass and epoxy.


Next I will finish glassing the inside of the top.

Rick W


Reply author: rickmantoo
Replied on: 04/29/2010 16:43:32
Message:

I finished glassing in the hinge mounting plated and glassing the remainder of the inside of the top. Here is the hinge pocket ready for epoxy. There is a layer of carbon fiber below the fiberglass layer at the hinge mounting locations.


Here is one of the mounting plates fully epoxied in.


Next I get to attach the top to the tub section and hopefully everything will work out.

Rick W


Reply author: rickmantoo
Replied on: 04/30/2010 14:15:04
Message:

It was a very nice day today so I opened the garage door to work.


I started out by opening the holes in the hinges from 1/4" to 3/8" to allow some adjustment. I use a Uni bit because it creates nice round holes.


I mounted the hinges to the top and left the mounting screws slightly loose.


I then slid the top on to the hinge pins in the tub section of the body.
Here is the top in the closed position.


Here is the top opened. I will have to attach some sort of cord to prevent the top from opening too far.


I tried for a while to get the hinges adjusted and had to get creative to get the job done. I placed the body on some saw horses and entered from the foot hole opening.
Here I am adjusting the front hinge.


I had to get back further to adjust the rear hinge.


It was tight but everything turned out great.


Next for the body is the sanding and body work. For the frame I still have several things to do the the seat and steering.

Rick W


Reply author: vhclbldr
Replied on: 05/03/2010 21:29:33
Message:

Rick,

About how much would you estimate the body/shell/top to weigh at this point, and I notice you are supporting yourself on the inner shell leaning on your arms while inside the vehicle. How sturdy is the bottom of the shell (it seems obviously strong enough to support much of your upper body weight)?


Jamieson
Builder of Tadpole Recumbent w/ Electric-assist
Bel Air, MD (USA)


Reply author: warren
Replied on: 05/04/2010 07:14:58
Message:

Notice his hand is carefully where you you can see the saw horse through the slot in the fairing. I'm guessing 35 lbs.


Reply author: rickmantoo
Replied on: 05/04/2010 09:05:10
Message:

Jamieson

By making sure you connect the inner and outer skins it stiffens the body up quite a bit. If I would have used carbon in the tub section the weight would have been the same but it would have been strong enough to act as the frame. I will do that on the next one.

Nice job on your trike.

Warren
Good guess the weight is just under 40 lbs.


Rick W


Reply author: rickmantoo
Replied on: 05/06/2010 16:54:38
Message:

So a little more progress Once I got the top all adjusted and the clearances where I wanted them, the inside of the top where I built up the lip to accept the hinges rubbed in the top of the bottom section when the top was being opened. So I removed the fiberglass and sanded out some of the foam and re glassed the inside of the top. now everything clears when the top is being opened and closed.


Next I changed the seat mounting so that the seat will be able to tilt forward. I used some bar stock and a couple of front axle skewers, one quick release and one not.

Here is the mounting with the seat fixed.


And here is one with the seat released and tilting forward.



Next I need to figure out the mods to the steering.

Rick W


Reply author: rickmantoo
Replied on: 05/07/2010 14:16:12
Message:

Today I worked on making a box to place my Headway 24v 20 ah battery.
Here is the battery and the BMS


I made a box out of 1/2" foam. What you think I would use something else!


Here is where the battery box where it will be located on the frame. This is why I needed to make the seat tilt forward for access.I also rounded over all the corners of the foam box.


Here is the box ready for epoxy


Next I need to finish the battery box and mount it to the frame. I still need to work on the steering also.

Rick W


Reply author: Jackrabbit Jimmy
Replied on: 05/07/2010 14:20:49
Message:

Rick

You should have kept quiet about the batteries and said the box was for your lunch. You could have cleaned up in your class at the races.


Jackrabbit Jimmy


Reply author: sean costin
Replied on: 05/07/2010 17:48:18
Message:

Rick,
Did you lose your job? -or start taking uppers? How is all this progress possible?
Sean


Reply author: alevand
Replied on: 05/08/2010 05:45:40
Message:

Batteries might get too warm in the enclosed insulated box, vent holes might be needed.

C:
Tony Levand


Reply author: rickmantoo
Replied on: 05/08/2010 11:14:46
Message:

Jim

Great Idea, Maybe I will just cary first aid supplies and beer.

Sean

Well I have been on reduced hours at work for the last 6 months. But I will nether confirm or deny the thing about the uppers. You know this HPV disease once one relapses, it takes several gallons of epoxy to start the recovery, I am on the home stretch.

Tony
I will be removing the foam and adding another heat sink for the bms. The foam was used just to make the box

Rick W


Reply author: rickmantoo
Replied on: 05/08/2010 12:01:16
Message:

I continued to work on the battery box today.

I first marked the sides where I will be cutting the box open.


Next I used a vibratory saw to cut the box open. This is one tool that is a must for doing any kind of composite work.


I added a layer of clear packing tale to the lower portion of the box. This will prevent the fiberglass and epoxy from sticking so I can create a lip.


I used some spray glue and stuck the box back together and wrapped the seam with 2" fiberglass tape. I overlapped the bottom with the tape by a 1/2 inch and then wetted it out with some epoxy.


I ordered some sanding blocks and some peal and stick sanding paper so that I can try and get a nice straight finish on the body. This will be coming up next on the to do list, after I work on the steering.


Rick W


Reply author: rickmantoo
Replied on: 05/09/2010 13:03:19
Message:

Well I did some work on the steering I cut the handlebar width down.
I had marked where the handlebars hit the tub section at full lock and used a pipe cutter to cut the end sections off.


I then added some rubber grips the the bare tube ends.


I am going to take the frame out on some additional test runs to determine the range with no pedaling and with human power added and continue to work on the battery box and the steering u-joint.

Rick W


Reply author: rickmantoo
Replied on: 05/15/2010 11:15:01
Message:

I continued to work on the battery box.
I removed most of the foam from the inside of the box.


I left some of the foam in the corners to provide some stiffness.


I then added some draw latches to keep the top and bottom together.


I also decided to stiffen up the front suspension by changing out the front springs.
I removed the 3 screws that hold the spring retainer.


I then changed the springs from ones rated for 110 lbs to ones rated for 150 lbs


I also think I need to change the steering ratio and slow the steering down some. At 22-25 mph over rough roads the current steering ratio feels too quick and the trike is a little squirrelly. There may also be something not right with the way the steering works. I will have to look into it.

Rick W


Reply author: rickmantoo
Replied on: 05/22/2010 17:14:01
Message:

I have been working on the steering. The trike had a lot of bump steer when traveling over rough patches in the road (around here that is everywhere) at speeds over 20 MPH. I spent some time researching bump steer and e-mailing John Tetz since he built a trike that also used sliding king pins several years ago. I believe I have everything sorted out now.

I rebuilt both spindles and center steering pivot to make the tie rods perpendicular to the suspension travel. Here is one side with the new tie rod layout.


Here is the modified center pivot.


I then turned my attention to the u-joint for the steering.

I started with a Sears 1/2" u-joint


I cut and brazed it to a couple pieces of 1 1/8" tubing and added some pinch bolts.


Installed it on the trike.


I need to put things back together and take the frame out for another test ride before I mount it in the body.

Rick W


Reply author: OpusthePoet
Replied on: 05/23/2010 15:48:48
Message:

With a sliding kingpin you can't get rid of bump steer, but you can make it consistent. What you have to do is make the tierods at right angles at one end or the other of the suspension travel so that depending on which side of the axle centerline your steering arms are located and which end of the travel you pick for making the tierods perpendicular you get either consistent toe-in for bumps, or consistent toe-out. Toe-in is more stable most of the time.

Opus

My gas is up to $.99 a burrito, $5.99 for premium and I'm only getting 20 miles to the regular burrito.


Reply author: rickmantoo
Replied on: 05/25/2010 07:53:53
Message:

Opus

Thanks for the information. That is exactly what I have tried to do. I thing it is harder to redo something then to build it right the first time. I believe I got the steering the best it will be.

Rick W


Reply author: OpusthePoet
Replied on: 05/25/2010 15:55:12
Message:

You just need to sit in it to see how much it travels static (aka sag) and then set zero toe at that ride height. you'll get toe out on droop and toe in on bump and if you set the tie rods right the toe in will be non-linear so that at full bump you will have maximum toe in and most of the toe change will be in the first half of travel. Toe out on droop is not as bad as having it in bump because the droop unloads the tire so that the change in toe won't affect direction as much as bump.

Opus

My gas is up to $.99 a burrito, $5.99 for premium and I'm only getting 20 miles to the regular burrito.


Reply author: andrewchenpo
Replied on: 05/28/2010 13:22:56
Message:

Rick

I notice you don't do any bondo work with the foam before you lay on the fiberglass. Are you using epoxy resin? When I used polyester resin in the past it would melt/dissolve the foam, is there something I'm missing?

Thanks,

Andrew Hartz


Reply author: rickmantoo
Replied on: 05/29/2010 12:33:45
Message:

Andrew
Not missing anything. I use epoxy resins with the Styrofoam the polyester resins melt the foam like you found out. If you want to use polyester resins then one needs to change the type of foam to a urethane foam there are others also. I pay the extra for epoxy ( about 3 times more the polyester) because it also has low odor and I can change the working time depending on what hardener I mix in.

Rick W


Reply author: rickmantoo
Replied on: 05/29/2010 12:38:44
Message:

Opus
I set the steering at the center of the suspension travel. On paper the maximum tie rod change will be .008 at the extremes. I have taken the trike out for some testing and the bump steer is not noticeable since I made the changes. Thanks for the input.

Rick W


Reply author: rickmantoo
Replied on: 05/29/2010 12:55:40
Message:

Well I think it is time that I get back to finishing up the body. I have the frame working nicely now.
I added some bearings to the top of the springs in the front suspension to help reduce the turning stiction. Here is a picture if the bearing and the 2 hardened washers I used.


I also ordered a quick release for the torque ram on the Rholff hub. I had to get them from England. Fast service got the parts quicker then some fabric I ordered from Georgia
Here are the parts.


I had to add a small tube offset from the rear swing arm to get the quick release receiver to line up. This will make installing the rear wheel a lot easier when the frame is in the body.


I also mocked up a windscreen. I am not sure about this so this is as far as I am going to proceed until after I get some miles on the completed vehicle.


Rick W


Reply author: rickmantoo
Replied on: 05/29/2010 14:21:43
Message:

So I have been showing close up picture of the mod to the frame I thought I would post some pictures of the finished not painted frame.

Here is the drive side of the frame showing the battery location. I am still working on finishing up the new battery box.


This picture is of the e-motor side of the frame.


And here is a front picture.


Rick W


Reply author: rickmantoo
Replied on: 05/31/2010 11:49:47
Message:

Finished the battery box, except for final paint. I installed a 50 amp automotive switch in the box to be able to disconnect the power from the controller. I still need to finalize the attachment to the trike. Bungee is only temporary.


Been working on staining and finishing some new doors for the house so the sanding on the body will resume once the doors are installed.

Rick W


Reply author: rickmantoo
Replied on: 06/20/2010 16:04:45
Message:

Finally got back to working on the velomobile body. Garrie Hill drove up to partake in the fun and games. The plan was to spray the body parts Duratec polyester high build primer. This was to fill in the cloth patter and make the parts one color to get a visual on the final shape.

The first step was to clean up and drape the inside of the garage with plastic to keep the over spray off the tools and stuff. I worked on that Friday and Saturday.


Garrie arrived Sunday morning and we finished getting the top and tub ready for the primer.


We then got all the supplies ready for the mixing and spraying


We sprayed a little more 1/2 of the gallon can of primer in 4-20 oz batches. Cleaning the spray gun between each batch.


Here is the top after the Duratec has started to set.


I will let everything cure for a day or so and start block sanding and filling in the low spots. I will then do one more spraying of the Duratec before the final paint color.

Rick W


Reply author: warren
Replied on: 06/22/2010 09:03:50
Message:

Wow, looks great!


Reply author: rickmantoo
Replied on: 06/26/2010 16:55:42
Message:

So I started on sanding the Duritec primer to find the low spots on the top of the body. I used several different sanding blocks and 80 grit paper.

After sanding the low spots start to revile themselves.


I then mixed up some glazing putty and applied it to the low areas. I then sanded and applied more putty. This putty on putty off lasted for almost 4 hours.


I then applied another coat of primer to see the progress. It looks like I still have several areas that will need a little attention. But I am pleased with the progress.


Next I need to do the same thing to the tub portion of the body.

Rick W


Reply author: Jackrabbit Jimmy
Replied on: 06/27/2010 04:03:02
Message:

Rick;

Your attention to detail is admirable.



Jackrabbit Jimmy


Reply author: rickmantoo
Replied on: 07/03/2010 16:07:01
Message:

Spent some more time sanding the last couple of days and I have the body in pretty good shape. Here is the top waiting for me to finish the lower section of the body.


Here is the tub section before I primed it.


Here is the body ready for me to mount the frame. I should be able to do that in a day or so.


View from the back.


and looking straight on the front


Rick W


Reply author: vhclbldr
Replied on: 07/04/2010 04:43:42
Message:

Rick, your attention to detail and documentation of each step/phase is incredibly professional and nothing short of spectacular. This thread is the best "how-to" on building velomobile bodies (or any fiberglass bodied vehicle construction) that I have found on the web.
Outstanding, sir. Simply outstanding.
.. and each entry is like getting a fix for those of us with the addiction to fabricating, too!

Warren, I am looking forward to seeing how this build is preserved with pictures. What options are you considering (I know that there has been repeated mention of a web page or web pages on this site), and have you considered converting it to PDF format? (too large? too much work?)?

If I can help, I would be glad to do my part.


Jamieson
Builder of Tadpole Recumbent w/ Electric-assist
Bel Air, MD (USA)

P.S. I just went back and re-read the entire post from the beginning. I stand by my original statements. Fantastic job!
:)


Reply author: rickmantoo
Replied on: 07/04/2010 12:47:04
Message:

Jamieson
Thanks for the complement! I hope other people start building the own Velomobiles.

Today I got up early to do some cleaning up from all the sanding. Hopefully I will be able to get the vehicle together tomorrow and take it for it's test ride. I also painted the hinges for the top so they will be ready to install.


Now it is time to drink Beer and eat Bratwurst

Rick W


Reply author: Seatec
Replied on: 07/14/2010 09:40:32
Message:

Nice job, just found it today. How do you like the electric motor. I'm just starting to look at getting a recumbent trike and want a motor and a smaller body for the front end,.my hobby, building fiberglass accessories for Burgman 650 trikes. Wayne


Reply author: rickmantoo
Replied on: 07/19/2010 06:50:44
Message:

Wayne

Sorry for the late reply. I just went back to full time (Actually overtime) work and was away from a computer. I like the idea of an electric motor on the vehicle, and the system I am using works good for a low power (300-400W). I have about 50 miles on it and have been playing with the motor gear ratios somewhat. The next test is to see how it all performs with the body. Not sure when that will happen but I am trying to get it all sorted out so I can make it to the Niagara Velomobile Happening in early September.

Rik


Reply author: raymondg
Replied on: 07/19/2010 12:46:19
Message:

Rick,
Just got back online after vacation, and I like it. Very sweet work. I'd been eyeing the Duratec primer after using standard sandable primer (auto store variety)for the Orion Plugs. Your little comment of after 4 hours...just gets me. It took me many days to do the same thing on the Orion with the thinner primer. Thanks again for the updates.

Raymond


Reply author: rickmantoo
Replied on: 07/21/2010 11:04:20
Message:

Raymond

Thanks for the continued support for this project. I still have way more than 4 hours to finish sanding and blocking the body before the final paint. The body is no where near acceptable mold finish.

I need to find the time to get the frame in the body and put some miles on the complete set up.

I am also looking into adding turn signals and lights. This is also a new area for me so I will spend some time lurking on the European forums for lighting solutions. Garrie Hill is also getting me some information on the lighting and signals on his Glide.

Rick W


Reply author: warren
Replied on: 07/21/2010 12:19:02
Message:

Here y'go Rick. $6.43 with free shipping from China.

http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.3631

-Warren.


Reply author: rickmantoo
Replied on: 07/23/2010 12:34:57
Message:

Warren
Thanks for the link. I ordered 2 different ones to check them out before I try and make a 12 volt system.


Rick W


Reply author: warren
Replied on: 07/23/2010 13:13:54
Message:

Hey Rick are you going to have that velo ready enough to bring to N. Manchester next month so we can roll it test ride it?

-Warren.


Reply author: rickmantoo
Replied on: 07/23/2010 13:48:38
Message:

Warren

I am scheduled to be up at the International Bridge August 16-26 for a bridge inspection so it looks like I will not be going to N. Manchester. I am planning on attending the Niagara velomobile thing. I just hope work does not get in the way ( but it is nice to be busy at work again)

Rick


Reply author: rickmantoo
Replied on: 07/25/2010 14:25:36
Message:

So today I got back to doing some things on the velomobile body. I attached the hinges on the top and opened it it about 95 degrees open.


I then measured for the location of some mounting plates for a cable stop for the top. I will use some aircraft cable to hold the top open at about 95 degrees. I have not figured out a high tech way to keep the top from blowing shut. so I will use the low tech way like a prop.
Here is one of the bonded in mounting plate.


While I was bonding in the mounting plates I used some flox to feather the sided of the aluminum plates. I used the extra flox to fill in several sections on the shell where I sanded through to the foam.


Rick W


Reply author: pounce
Replied on: 07/25/2010 22:50:53
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by rickmantoo



I have not figured out a high tech way to keep the top from blowing shut. so I will use the low tech way like a prop.



How about using a lift hood strut off a car? They come in all sorts of sizes for use on the hood or rear lift gates and even just glass on hatchbacks and such.

I've actually just come across your long post here after planning a build approach that is very similar. It's really good to see your work and appreciate that you are sharing your steps along the way.

I am planning on using the same foam and leaving it as part of the structure. The approach will be to have the foam cut on a cnc like a frogmill or shopbot in 3 sections. Two halves from about 2/3 high and a top. I'm looking at the cnc for a few reasons. I've done some custom bodywork in the past and getting symmetry always made me crazy even though I know most people can't see it (you cant see both sides of a car at the same time). I also am imagining I can go directly to laying on a shell if I get a nice smooth surface from the cnc.

I've thought about trying some other types of shell coating materials.

A hard coating for foam:

http://styrospray.com/styrospray.html

Polyurea hybrid coating:

http://www.purepoly.com/index.php?main_page=indy_blast

I don't think either of these are as strong as fiberglass, but could serve as good prototyping surfaces esp if the desire was to make a mold off the model. I still need to try them to see how it will work in the real world.

Thanks again for posting all of this...it's inspirational. You must be having a lot of fun.

Cheers


Reply author: rickmantoo
Replied on: 07/27/2010 08:46:13
Message:

Pounce

If you are going to do the strip method like I did, it is important to add a layer of fiberglass to hold all the strips together. Then any kind of surfacer or filler can be used to smooth out the shape. With CNC ribs it should be more accurate. If you are doing this to create the plug and you have access to CNC, I believe you would be better off and get a more accurate shape if you make the plug from solid pieces and not use the strips over ribs. Then you could probably use one of the products you linked to without fiberglass first.

Rick W


Reply author: rickmantoo
Replied on: 08/01/2010 11:23:39
Message:

So I was finally was able to get all the parts assembled and take the vehicle out for it's first test ride with the body and the frame.
First I removed the wheels from from the frame and disconnected the tie-rod ends. I used a bungee to hold everything together. I also replaced the u-joint steering.


Here the frame is mounted to the lower section of the body.


Once everything was aligned and tightened I took it for it's first test ride.


That ride was good it reveled some rubbing of the rear tire when i was making turns. I used a saw and opened up the rear tire slot. I then added the top on.


I took the velomobile out for a second test ride. Except for needing to install something to secure the top from bouncing. I was pleased with the way everything worked.


I will add some weather striping between the top and the tub and also add a velcro strap to keep the top from bouncing.
Here I am sitting in the vehicle with the top open.


Here I am closing the top


Still allot of little details to take care of.

Rick W


Reply author: raymondg
Replied on: 08/02/2010 09:03:47
Message:

Congrats Rick! The birthing process is always a lot harder to get to than you would think, but oh so rewarding. Yours looks to have gone very well. You must be very happy.

Raymond


Reply author: Garrie L Hill
Replied on: 08/02/2010 11:56:40
Message:

Igor, you fool! Poahmp ze tyres up! Doan't bite zem!!



Garrie "carbon based lifeform" Hill
HPRA Co-Dictator of the East
for pics of some of my time and money sucking projects
http://garriehill.winkflash.com/
and
http://s58.photobucket.com/albums/g277/cfbb/
and videos
http://vimeo.com/5513519



Reply author: rickmantoo
Replied on: 08/02/2010 12:26:49
Message:

Raymond

Yes it is a great feeling to have it all together and running on both human and electrical power. One thing I discovered is the mounting for body on the frame needs to be improved. Under hard cornering the rear tire rubs on the bottom of the shell. Also I need to change the way the front is mounted to improve the stiffness at the front wheel wells.
Next I will be looking at some additional body mounts as well as all the other little things that still need to be figured out, But I think I can see the light

Garrie

Slow day at work? Thanks for the picture, I looks like I may need some dental work.

Rick W


Reply author: alevand
Replied on: 08/04/2010 04:39:31
Message:

How much does your velo weigh, Rick? (minus electrical)

C:
Tony Levand


Reply author: rickmantoo
Replied on: 08/04/2010 10:31:10
Message:

Tony

Right now the vehicle weighs in at 90 pounds and that includes almost 15 pounds for the electric motor, battery and additional gears and chain.

Rick W


Reply author: rickmantoo
Replied on: 08/07/2010 14:25:42
Message:

Today I decided to change the front body mount to see if I could decrease the flexing of the body.
The original front mount went from the bottom bracket to the nose of the vehicle and allowed the body to rock side to side on the frame.


I started the new mount by cutting some chromoly tubing with my bandsaw.


Once the tubing was cut I mitered the ends of the tubing with a hole saw with my tube miterer.


After I had all the tubing cut and mitered I did some test fitting before I braze the tubes together.


Next step once all the pieces were brazed together was to test fit the new mount assembly and mark the location where the screw post would be bonded to the tub.


I then bonded the screw posts to the lower tub section with some fiberglass and epoxy.

Tomorrow after the fiberglass hardens I will take a test ride to see if this mount fixes the body mounting issues. If not I will add some additional mounting to the rear of the frame and body.

Rick W


Reply author: rickmantoo
Replied on: 08/09/2010 16:54:22
Message:

So far it looks like the new front mount is preventing the body from rubbing on the rear tire. I will need to do some more testing and some more extreme cornering to be sure.

I added a petg wind screen and one mirror to the vehicle.


I still need to make a latch for the top, add some turn signals and lights and start thinking of a color scheme to paint the velomobile. As for now more on the road testing!! YAH

Rick W


Reply author: redorblack
Replied on: 08/11/2010 18:10:46
Message:

Wondering if you have another thread or can give more information on the front suspension you showed on the first page.

I am looking to do a Mochet Type H inspired Velocar and think I want to do a front suspension. The later ones had a spring device in the spindle possibly a bit like yours. I also want to incorporate drum brakes up front although the Mochets only used a band brake in the rear. Like I said... inspired by, not a copy. I want more modern equipment and a bit safer.

Thanks,
Scott


Reply author: rickmantoo
Replied on: 08/13/2010 17:17:35
Message:

Scott

I do not have another thread going on this project at this time. I asked Warren to post the drawing I used to build the front suspension I have not been able to get it to show up in this thread . I hope it answers your questions rather then confuse you.

Rick W


Reply author: warren
Replied on: 08/13/2010 18:44:08
Message:

I have started Rick's velomobile page at:
http://www.recumbents.com/wisil/wianecki/velomobile/

You can find the front suspension drawing there.

-Warren.


Reply author: pounce
Replied on: 08/14/2010 06:59:29
Message:

Small typo on the link to the pdf blueprint on the page currently. You have "velomobile6.pdf" and it needs to be "velomobile 6.pdf" with a space before the 6.


Reply author: rickmantoo
Replied on: 08/14/2010 15:38:25
Message:

Warren

Thanks for getting that started for me. Now I have to create some additional information on the project.

Back to the PROJECT

I still has some rubbing of the rear wheel when I turned sharp at higher speeds. I looked at increasing the slot in the bottom of the Velomobile for the tire and decided to install 2 additional body mounts at the lower rear.

I first bent up some 1/8" thick X 1" wide aluminum to form some "L" brackets. Mounted the aluminum in my vice and bent it over with a plastic mallet.


I then cut the piece to the required length with my chop saw.


And rounded the corners in my 1" bench belt sander.


Here is a picture of one of the completed brackets after I cut an adjustment slot and both of the stud inserts I will be bonding in the bottom of the tub.


I decided to use one of the electric motor mount locations for an attachment point for one of the mounts.


On the other side of the frame I will add a mounting bracket to the side of the battery cradle.


Here I am brazing the mount tab to the battery cradle .


I then bonded the studs into the bottom of the tub. Tomorrow more testing before I have to go out of town for 2-weeks for work.

Rick W


Reply author: rickmantoo
Replied on: 08/14/2010 16:04:02
Message:

Here is a picture of the studs bonded to the bottom of the tub for the new rear mounts.


Not sure if I will be able to do e-mail while I am gone so it will be several weeks before I get back to the project.

Rick W


Reply author: vhclbldr
Replied on: 08/14/2010 20:06:19
Message:

Rick, Can you send a closer picture of your motor drive system and how it links in with the rear wheel, or does it drive the pedal drive side with a freewheel mounted on the shaft somehow?

Jamieson
Builder of Tadpole Recumbent w/ Electric-assist
Bel Air, MD (USA)


Reply author: rickmantoo
Replied on: 08/15/2010 10:18:26
Message:

Jamieson

The electric motor is connected to the drive system through a jackshaft. On the drive side of the jackshaft there is a freewheel that the crank is connected to and a fixed gear that goes to the rear wheel. This allows the electric motor the drive the rear wheel through the gears in the 14 speed rear hub. I hope I explained it and maybe the following pictures will help.

I started out by making some adapters to use on a square ended bottom bracket. Here I am using a tapered end mill to cut a tapered square hole.


I made 2 adapters one with threads for the freewheel and fixed gear and one that would adapt to a #25 sprocket. Here is the completed Jackshaft with the adapters and gears mounted.


This is how the motor side of the jackshaft looks mounted on the frame.


This is how the drive side looks.


Here is a close up with the motor mounted.


I hope this helps answer your questions.

Rick W


Reply author: vhclbldr
Replied on: 08/28/2010 21:13:14
Message:

Brilliant! That helps keep the motor from slowing down the rear wheel when coasting or pedaling (as is the case with my huge hub-motor) while not forcing the pedals to rotate when under electric power.

I wish I had seen this a year ago before I bought my hubmotor rear wheel. I don't think he will give me a refund on it, either.

Great design!


Jamieson
Builder of Tadpole Recumbent w/ Electric-assist
Bel Air, MD (USA)


Reply author: warren
Replied on: 08/29/2010 07:25:12
Message:

I have progressed a bit on Rick's velomobile page at:
http://www.recumbents.com/wisil/wianecki/velomobile/

-Warren.


Reply author: rickmantoo
Replied on: 08/29/2010 17:45:16
Message:

Jamieson
Thanks for the kind comments. The design for the drive system I am using has been around for I while, I first saw it used on the endless sphere site and adapted it to this vehicle.

Warren
Thanks Now I need to get you some additional information to fill in some of the gaps on the design and the frame construction.

Well I made it back from my 2-week road trip and had several packages waiting for me. I took Warren's advice and ordered some tail lights from China.
Here are the two lights I ordered, I am going to use the one on the right.


Next is where to mount the lights?
Mount them High?


or mount them lower?


I need to make up my mind and get the lights mounted. I want to be able to take the vehicle to the Niagara Velomobile Happening SAT/SUN Sept 18 - 19.

Here is a picture of the completed rear body mounts I installed earlier.I ran out of light gray primer so I used dark gray on the battery holder.


Reply author: pounce
Replied on: 08/29/2010 18:07:42
Message:

I recently saw these lights and thought of your project:

http://www.radiantz.com/cart/index1.html?c5.html&1

They have flexible LED arrays that are surface mount.

I think some molded in lights would look sexy. Or perhaps a surface mount with quick release so you can keep clean lines...


Reply author: rickmantoo
Replied on: 08/31/2010 08:47:18
Message:

Pounce

Thanks for the link, I did look at that site and boy those lights look great! I am looking to do a simple solution now to get the vehicle going and then once I figure out how it should work upgrade to better lights before I paint (that is another issue that needs to be resolved)

Rick W


Reply author: rickmantoo
Replied on: 09/01/2010 10:04:52
Message:

Well I will not be able to make it to the Niagara Velomobile gathering coming up due to work commitments. So I thought I would start thinking about what to do about the final painting.

Any thoughts on what the final color for the vehicle should be ? Blue top with silver bottom? Red, white and blue with stars? Orange and yellow? What ?

Rick W


Reply author: warren
Replied on: 09/01/2010 12:51:02
Message:

Clownfish. I think that's Orange with white stripes and a black band between the orange and white.


Reply author: Runxner
Replied on: 09/02/2010 03:39:20
Message:

Re: LEDs- I haven't been satisfied with any LEDs bought for motorcycles. Useless in the daytime,

Team Low-Life
Lowracer Test Pilot/Evangelist
Adelaide, Australia


Reply author: 25hz
Replied on: 09/02/2010 06:15:31
Message:

I think a high gloss black velomobile would be dead sexy, but being black, it would probably just end up with the "dead" part if you ever rode it on the street like that. I am partial to the crazy green colours too, like granny smith apples.

Too bad you won't make hte velo meet after all. I was looking forward to seeing you do an electric smoke show on theroad out in front of Reg's place. Maybe next year . . . sigh.


Reply author: sean costin
Replied on: 09/02/2010 19:41:00
Message:

the Grand National Roadster show is a great source for paint schemes. This guy has a gallery from a number of shows and he has a love for fish as well! I think you can ship his galleries from the renaissance festival.

http://www.pbase.com/xl1ken/root


Reply author: Jeff Wills
Replied on: 09/02/2010 19:52:48
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by 25hz

I think a high gloss black velomobile would be dead sexy, but being black, it would probably just end up with the "dead" part if you ever rode it on the street like that. I am partial to the crazy green colours too, like granny smith apples.

Too bad you won't make hte velo meet after all. I was looking forward to seeing you do an electric smoke show on theroad out in front of Reg's place. Maybe next year . . . sigh.



This seems appropriate for a "tadpole" velomobile:

http://www.pbase.com/xl1ken/image/29731989

__________________
Jeff Wills
All my bikes:
http://home.comcast.net/~jeff_wills/Gallery/index.html


Reply author: JMvD
Replied on: 09/02/2010 23:37:37
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by warren

Clownfish. I think that's Orange with white stripes and a black band between the orange and white.



Just take a look at:

http://velomobielfan.blogspot.com/

Cheers,

JM


Reply author: LongJohn
Replied on: 09/03/2010 01:09:10
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by JMvD

quote:
Originally posted by warren

Clownfish. I think that's Orange with white stripes and a black band between the orange and white.



Just take a look at:

http://velomobielfan.blogspot.com/

Cheers,

JM



Jan-Marcel beat me to it..

For more inspiration:

http://picasaweb.google.com/velomobielen

and,

http://picasaweb.google.be/agenda.fietser

my personal favorite: http://picasaweb.google.be/agenda.fietser/Waw043#

Thomas (T minus 7 days...)


Reply author: pounce
Replied on: 09/03/2010 07:38:55
Message:

How about a vinyl wrap instead of paint? You could go crazy with photo's or graphics and it could be peeled off later.

I'm personally going with Gulf orange and light blue. I think it's ironic and I just love the look on the Le Mans Porsche 917 and GT40 cars...


Reply author: OpusthePoet
Replied on: 09/03/2010 12:16:57
Message:

Florescent orange with a ANSI Safety Lime "swoosh", or the reverse. Make yourself visible, obnoxious but visible.

Opus

My gas is up to $.99 a burrito, $5.99 for premium and I'm only getting 20 miles to the regular burrito.


Reply author: raymondg
Replied on: 09/03/2010 17:46:04
Message:

Ferrari Red with tan leather interior. Or if you are more of an anglophile, British racing green with white racing stripe, off center of course.

-Raymond


Reply author: rickmantoo
Replied on: 09/14/2010 10:27:39
Message:

Thanks everyone for the suggestions on a paint color. I have not had any time to work on the velo for the last month or so. I think I need to pick a solid color because of my painting skills (or lack of) and then maybe add some stick on decals, Flames out the wheel wells, something like that. I also have a bunch (3000) ¾ x 3 inch pieces of 3M white reflective tape, maybe I could come up with a design using them over a solid background color.

There still is a chance (small but a chance) I may be able to make it to the Niagara Velomobile Happening comming up on the 18 & 19. It all depends if I can get everything I need to get done at work by Friday evening, we will see.


Rick W


Reply author: 25hz
Replied on: 09/14/2010 12:25:55
Message:

Awesome news! I'm looking forward to filming your electric smokeshow on the 7th line. I'll be taking a new velo down for Ray to uncork/unveil, plus hopefully a Team too. Larry will be there with his CF trike, and hopefully he'll bring his velo too.

I know it's rather belated at this point, but I still have those steering U-joints for you. You know, the ones I was going to give you at Indy in April? :) Maybe you can use them on your WIFE'S velomobile when you make it for her . . .


Reply author: rickmantoo
Replied on: 10/06/2010 17:29:06
Message:

Well it has been a while since I have been able to work on the velomobile. But I was recently able to check a few more things off the to do list. While I at the Niagara Velomobile Happening, I talked with John Tetz about some steering issues I was having, mainly a heavy feeling in the steering. I traced the problem to an out of round steering shaft that was sticking in the frame bushings.
I machined a new one from an aluminum round and bolted a stainless bar to the bottom. That appears to have solved many of the issues.


Next I needed away to hold the battery to the frame more securely. I started out by covering the bottom of the battery case with several layers of cooking wrap and laying up 3 layers of fiberglass with a sheet al .060 aluminum imbedded between the first and second layers.


Once the epoxy resin cured I trimmed and cut the lower pan about 2" deep.


Next I added a center support bar to the battery holder so I could bolt the pan down.


Here is the pan bolted to the frame and the battery secured with a elastic strap I added some 1/8 inch wire brackets to make installing the strap easier.


Next I will be working on a rear fender, and a 12v lighting system with turn and brake lights.

Rick W


Reply author: rickmantoo
Replied on: 10/07/2010 17:06:20
Message:

Did a few other things to the Vm before I take it to the HPRA races in Springfield Ohio this weekend. I installed a 1/8 in plastic coated cable to hold the top in the open position. I installed it at the front so it would not interfere with the rear wheel and the seat if it as installed at the back.


One problem with this instillation is that when the top is closed the cable gets uncomfortably close to the peddles and chain ring. So I added some elastic to pull the cable away from the peddles when the top is closed.


Here is a picture that shows the cable neatly stowed at the front of the vehicle when the top is closed.


The next thing to add is some sort of latch to keep the top closed. I looked at several types of mechanical latches but decided to keep it simple and use a bungy chord latch. The cord is attached to the top and has a hook on the other end.


On the tub section I installed a concave bushing on a short bolt. The hook is just slipped on to secure the top closed.


lastly I have started to gather the parts for the turning signals and tail and brake lights. Here are the led turn signals and a DC-DC converter that I will be using to convert 24v to 12 volts.


I still need to get the switches and flasher along with the tail/ brake light.

Rick W


Reply author: Velocity Velos
Replied on: 10/07/2010 22:29:26
Message:



Well I made it back from my 2-week road trip and had several packages waiting for me. I took Warren's advice and ordered some tail lights from China.
Here are the two lights I ordered, I am going to use the one on the right.



I am using the lights on the right, too. Actually, mine are from a company called Acclaim, but they have to be made with the same molds. I ordered a Chinese version at the same time that looked identical to yours. The Acclaim version didn't have the headlight, which is useless to me anyway, and was $20 as opposed to $30 for the direct-from-China version. It's worked well for me for over a year now. The horn is loud enough to be heard on the bike path. I had to splice in some wire to make the brake light sensor reach a front wheel. I also added a switch that lets me cut off the sensor when using the parking brake. The taillight is only 1 LED, so I added a separate taillight use the Acclaim light for the brake light and turn signals.

Taylor Wilhour

Velocity Velos
www.velocityvelos.com


Reply author: rickmantoo
Replied on: 10/08/2010 13:47:28
Message:

Taylor

I decided to go with brighter 12v vehicle lights for the Vm. I have a couple sets of the other lights I could send you.

Rick W


Reply author: Velocity Velos
Replied on: 10/10/2010 00:51:12
Message:

Sure, Thanks! Email me at taylor@velocityvelos.com and I'll send you my address.

Taylor Wilhour

Velocity Velos
www.velocityvelos.com


Reply author: mhelander
Replied on: 10/19/2010 04:56:00
Message:

Rick,

Do you have any weight figures about:
- trike (sans electric)
- electric assist (mainly battery pack, motor, heaviest part)
- fairing.

Your frame construction is interesting, might work well here far-far-away where snow is falling and weather is colder half the year. Suspension with springs (instead of elastomers etc) works also when cold.

Electric assist with insulated battery box would compensate nicely while three (smallish) wheels are adding a lot in friction side...

Cheers,
-Mika


Reply author: 25hz
Replied on: 10/19/2010 06:46:15
Message:

Hey Rick, was your velo air-mobile for the Ohio event or you still haven't given it it's fitrst "official" outing?

Also, was it you and I that were talking about a fairing design you had made, that was looking for a home?


Reply author: rickmantoo
Replied on: 10/22/2010 07:49:17
Message:

Tim

I am not sure exactly what design we talked about but I do have 2 or 3 other Vm design concepts that I developed body templates for but chose not to build. They are probably at the 90% completed stage and would need some additional effort to make them buildable.

Rick W


Reply author: 25hz
Replied on: 10/22/2010 09:44:51
Message:

Rick, I think you mentioned a lowracer tailbox, or something like that.

Remember, you'll need another velomobile for your wife too :)


Reply author: rickmantoo
Replied on: 10/22/2010 11:15:14
Message:

Mika

I can provide some estimates
Body 45 lb. 20.5kg.
frame 33 lb. 15 kg.
Electric stuff, 18 lb. 8.2 kg.

The springs for the fromt suspension work good in all the temperture extremes here in Michigan USA.

Rick W


Reply author: rickmantoo
Replied on: 11/20/2010 11:55:16
Message:

Well it has been a while since I have been able to do any additional work on the velo. It has been working great but I really need to get going on the lighting system. I am going to make a clear lens cover the the tail and brake light with the help of Garrie Hill. The fist step is to sand and tape off the rear section of the body where the tail lights will be mounted.


I taped off the area and applied sever coats of wax and used some spray mold release.


I then applied the first of 9 layers of fiberglass cloth. The first layer was .75 oz veil cloth and I made sure there were no air bubbles.


I let the first layer of veil and epoxy start to gel and then added 8 more layers of 8 oz cloth.
I added 4 layers let the epoxy cure for a day, sanded and then added another 4 layers. After it cured for another day I removed the tail mold and will send it to Garrie where he will cast a mail plug and then vacuum form a clear tail lens.


Hopefully Garrie will take some pictures of the process he will use to make the clear cover and post them here.

Rick W


Reply author: Craigl
Replied on: 12/02/2010 10:40:05
Message:

Great build Rick. I can't PM you as I don't use outlook for mail. I would like to know if you Would be willing to share your cut pattern for the foam. I would like to build a shell as it is damm cold here in Minnesota.

Thanks

Craig
pewterworks@gmail.com


Reply author: rickmantoo
Replied on: 12/03/2010 08:09:04
Message:

Craig
I should be able to provide the files as a PDF for you. It may take a day or two to pull them together. I will PM to discuss.

Rick


Reply author: Craigl
Replied on: 12/03/2010 09:41:55
Message:

Rick
Thank you so much

Craig


Reply author: Garrie L Hill
Replied on: 12/27/2010 16:47:45
Message:

Rick sent me the female cast of his tail light area. I'm going to modify it into a cavity style vacuum forming mold. The formed plastic part from this mold will then exactly replicate the outside surface of Rick's velo. Once he cuts out the tail opening for the lights, this "lens" will fit perfectly flush to the surface.

Step 1
Rick used a marker to designate the final lens trim line. I rough trimmed ( bandsaw) the mold a few inches beyond Rick's line. This will delineate the new mold flange area.


Garrie "carbon based lifeform" Hill
HPRA Co-Dictator of the East
for pics of some of my time and money sucking projects
http://garriehill.winkflash.com/
and
http://s58.photobucket.com/albums/g277/cfbb/
and videos
http://vimeo.com/5513519



Reply author: Garrie L Hill
Replied on: 12/27/2010 16:50:25
Message:

Here's a view of the inside of the mold to be.





Garrie "carbon based lifeform" Hill
HPRA Co-Dictator of the East
for pics of some of my time and money sucking projects
http://garriehill.winkflash.com/
and
http://s58.photobucket.com/albums/g277/cfbb/
and videos
http://vimeo.com/5513519



Reply author: Garrie L Hill
Replied on: 12/27/2010 16:53:41
Message:

Step 2

Now I start building up a nonporous flange all around the mold. This flat flange will be the airtight clamping surface for the plastic to be formed.



Garrie "carbon based lifeform" Hill
HPRA Co-Dictator of the East
for pics of some of my time and money sucking projects
http://garriehill.winkflash.com/
and
http://s58.photobucket.com/albums/g277/cfbb/
and videos
http://vimeo.com/5513519



Reply author: Garrie L Hill
Replied on: 12/27/2010 17:08:21
Message:

Step 3

After building up a thickness of 3/16" in the flange, and letting the epoxy completely cure, I bandsawed the perimeter to a more-or-less uniform width. A vacuum hose fitting was bonded to the deepest point of the mold.
Since we decided that the taillight lens would be made from .032" thick plastic, I drilled a vacuum port hole through the fitting into ( and through) the mold. The hole is .025" diameter. By making the hole diameter smaller than the thickness of the plastic being formed, the plastic will not be draw down into the vacuum hole.



Garrie "carbon based lifeform" Hill
HPRA Co-Dictator of the East
for pics of some of my time and money sucking projects
http://garriehill.winkflash.com/
and
http://s58.photobucket.com/albums/g277/cfbb/
and videos
http://vimeo.com/5513519



Reply author: LunaticFringe
Replied on: 12/29/2010 10:12:48
Message:

That's pretty cool!

Jeff in Tucson


Reply author: Garrie L Hill
Replied on: 01/12/2011 19:01:57
Message:

Here is a video of the lens being vacuum formed.
http://vimeo.com/18730038


Garrie "carbon based lifeform" Hill
HPRA Co-Dictator of the East
for pics of some of my time and money sucking projects
http://garriehill.winkflash.com/
and
http://s58.photobucket.com/albums/g277/cfbb/
and videos
http://vimeo.com/5513519



Reply author: Larry Lem
Replied on: 01/12/2011 21:37:32
Message:

groovy video, thanks for sharing.

I take it when you make head bubbles, you do not draw the plastic down to ever contact the mold surface so as to minimize the distortion. That is what we found at George Leone's workshop this summer.

Larry Lem


Reply author: Garrie L Hill
Replied on: 01/13/2011 05:49:41
Message:

Larry;
The quality of the bubble is primarily governed by two variables:

1) The quality of the surface of the mold. Just as in forming a fairing from a female mold, if there are waves and pits in the mold surface, there will be waves and pimples in the molded parts. I spend lots of time on getting the mold surface perfect. The plastic is formed completely down into the mold. Anything less in depth of draw is inconsistent.

2) The speed of forming. In all plastic deformable materials ( my Real Life Real Money Job TM is in deep drawing metal ) the rate of forming is related to the material thickness/depth of draw/material physical characteristics/material temperature. In the case of the Varna canopies, I form at the lower end of the temperature deformation band, and form slowly. The Varna canopies, from PETG plastic sheet, take almost 25 seconds to draw into the mold.

You have seen the quality of my Varna bubbles.

Garrie "carbon based lifeform" Hill
HPRA Co-Dictator of the East
for pics of some of my time and money sucking projects
http://garriehill.winkflash.com/
and
http://s58.photobucket.com/albums/g277/cfbb/
and videos
http://vimeo.com/5513519



Reply author: teubner
Replied on: 01/13/2011 10:28:14
Message:

The Zzip guy told me he used felt in/on the mold.


Reply author: rickmantoo
Replied on: 01/14/2011 08:20:32
Message:

I decided to make some changes to the front suspension of the velomobile before I finish the body work and electric. I decide to change out the sliding pillar front suspension and install a McPherson strut style suspension. I am also going to increase the front track to 28.5” from 27”. This will allow me to increase the room between the inside of the front wheel wells by 1-2 “. I will also be modifying the front boom to make it adjustable and also raising it up 1.5”.

I have worked up the design for the modifications and will start making parts this weekend.


Rick


Reply author: Larry Lem
Replied on: 01/14/2011 13:22:14
Message:

Don't mean to hijack offensively,

But thank-you, Garrie.
When trying to make windshields with George Leone this summer for Cyclops, we didn't have a female mold with a good finish, as George learned from previous attempts that the windshield should not touch the mold surface for the best finish. So I built up my streamliner plug in the windshield area with an inch (?) of foam before making the windshield female mold. It then didn't make sense that we needed to have a specific female mold shape since we weren't going to draw down that far. All that mattered was the outline of the toilet bowl. We used 0.125 PETG, George had big-ass heat lamps, and we pulled the vaccuum from below. We went very slowly, and took maybe 5 minutes for the draw, but we still got localized thinning near top at the flange.

We concluded that one way to make windshields if not pulling down to the surface would be to simply use an adequately-sized box, attach the desired shape toilet bowl flange at the top, then try to draw down to a consistent depth. Make 10 of them, take the ones that look the same, make the plug for the full bike using one, and use the others as a windshield and spares.

But I would like to try your method, making the windshield female surface smooth and pulling the windshield down to the surface. Then we'd start with the shape we wanted (rather than making the streamliner plug afterwards) and hopefully be able to repeat the process consistently.

Looks like I have some experimenting to do this summer. For now, I found that a standard Windwrap fairing model has the right shape and am cutting it to fit.

Larry Lem


Reply author: Garrie L Hill
Replied on: 01/14/2011 17:08:46
Message:

Larry;
No offense taken. Eighth inch material?! OK, why so thick? .032" thick in a uniformly convex shape with perimeter support via a rabbet would be more than adequate I believe.

Garrie "carbon based lifeform" Hill
HPRA Co-Dictator of the East
for pics of some of my time and money sucking projects
http://garriehill.winkflash.com/
and
http://s58.photobucket.com/albums/g277/cfbb/
and videos
http://vimeo.com/5513519



Reply author: Larry Lem
Replied on: 01/14/2011 18:23:38
Message:

These are our giant nose bubbles we are forming. I'll have to measure again to see how thin they became, how thin the Windwrap is, and make some more estimate as to how thin we could withstand. Neither George nor I are focusing on minimizing weight at this point. It has to work, first. (I already had a problem in that department in 2010.)

Larry Lem


Reply author: rickmantoo
Replied on: 01/15/2011 07:14:25
Message:

Larry
When Dave Johnson and I are doing larger free blown bubbles we built a large oven and used the guts from an old electric stove.
If you look close you can see a 22x 46 inch bubble in the top


Here is a bunch of canopies we did for the Great White streamliner we used .065 petg


Rick


Reply author: alevand
Replied on: 01/15/2011 11:05:12
Message:

Rick, whats the effect of not having the steering link and lower control arm in the same horizontal plane?

C:
Tony Levand


Reply author: OpusthePoet
Replied on: 01/15/2011 14:38:48
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by alevand

Rick, whats the effect of not having the steering link and lower control arm in the same horizontal plane?

C:
Tony Levand



I can answer that one: the steering link and the lower control arm can't be in the same plane without inducing bump steer. What has to happen is the extended arm of the steering arm has to intersect the effective center of the suspension assembly. I don't have access to a drawing of it, but what you need is for a line drawn through the centers of the pivots of the steering arm has to intersect a line drawn through the centers of the pivots of the A-arm, and a line drawn perpendicular to the axis of the strut from the top mount of the strut (the "instant center" of the suspension). If the 3 lines don't intersect then the steering arm will move in or out as the suspension travels.

Opus

My gas is up to $.99 a burrito, $5.99 for premium and I'm only getting 20 miles to the regular burrito.


Reply author: alevand
Replied on: 01/15/2011 16:44:56
Message:

Your telling me the two parallel links have the same pivot.

C:
Tony Levand


Reply author: OpusthePoet
Replied on: 01/16/2011 16:19:31
Message:

No, I'm saying the 2 links can't be parallel without inducing bump steer, and that because the pivots are not co-located there will be some measure of bump steer. But, if at ride height the instant centers of all 3 links (including the virtual link from the top of the strut) are in the same place when viewed from the front/rear, then the bump steer will be at a minimum.

Opus

My gas is up to $.99 a burrito, $5.99 for premium and I'm only getting 20 miles to the regular burrito.


Reply author: alevand
Replied on: 01/16/2011 18:43:07
Message:

So did Rick take an artistic license, or will he have bump steer?

C:
Tony Levand


Reply author: raymondg
Replied on: 01/16/2011 19:40:30
Message:

I am finding the transparency forming sub-thread very interesting, and is something I've been meaning to try for a long time, just haven't gotten around to it. The main reason the Orion is a camera vehicle is because I lack confidence in my ability to make a transparent top of adequate quality.

Years ago I read an article (in Sport Aviation IIRC) about a company that made face shields for astronaut helmets and some fighter jet canopies. In this article they mentioned that they coated their molds with some Vaseline looking compound before thermal-forming the plastic to the mold surface. They would not reveal what the substance was, but I have always wondered. Has anyone experimented with mold coatings for this application or have any knowledge of what might work?

Regards,
Raymond


Reply author: rickmantoo
Replied on: 01/17/2011 06:32:17
Message:

Tony
Tony
My understanding of bump steer is as long as the steering tie-rod swings in the same arc as the suspension swings there will not be any changes in the relative length of the steering rod so there should not be any toe changes over a bump. That being said there is 1.5 “of travel in this design and I do not have the steering rod shown in its final position.

Raymond
One can get some very accurate shapes by experimenting with the “art” of free blowing petg plastic.

Rick


Reply author: rickmantoo
Replied on: 01/17/2011 07:31:21
Message:

In order to get started on doing the modifications to the frame and front suspension I needed to make some room in the Manufacturing Facility (garage). So I purchased 2 bicycle lifts and installed them to the rafters. Each lift has a capacity of 55 lb. so this setup will hold the completely assembled vehicle.
Here is the complet vehicle on the lift. It took several minutes of alternating each lift to get the vehicle raised.


Here is the vehicle raised up enough to walk under get the one of the cars in.


After I knew it would work I removed the frame from the body and hoisted just the body out of the way untill I finish the mods to the frame.


Rick


Reply author: Garrie L Hill
Replied on: 01/17/2011 08:21:32
Message:

LOOK! Up in the sky!! Is it a bird? Is it a plane? No!! It's SuperVelo!!!!

Garrie "carbon based lifeform" Hill
HPRA Co-Dictator of the East
for pics of some of my time and money sucking projects
http://garriehill.winkflash.com/
and
http://s58.photobucket.com/albums/g277/cfbb/
and videos
http://vimeo.com/5513519



Reply author: LunaticFringe
Replied on: 01/17/2011 09:11:13
Message:

Very cool.

Jeff in Tucson


Reply author: dshowalt
Replied on: 01/21/2011 15:25:34
Message:

With the McPherson strut how are you going to account for the lower control arm outboard pivot point traveling in an arc (when viewed from the front) with a fixeed spring housing and top support? Is there enough clearance for the lower cyllender to slide over the uppercylendar containing the spring to account for this arc? Can't wait to see pictures of the actual assembly

Dave


Reply author: alevand
Replied on: 01/21/2011 17:04:08
Message:

very uplifting

C:
Tony Levand


Reply author: rickmantoo
Replied on: 01/22/2011 06:59:24
Message:

Dave

The strut will be mounted at the top in rubber bushings on the top of the 3/8 rod. This will provide some rotation. The two aluminum pieces will be bonded together and the suspension travel about 1 inch will be along the 3/8 rod at the top. I should have most of the pieces finished this weekend.

Rick


Reply author: rickmantoo
Replied on: 01/23/2011 14:16:06
Message:

Well I was able to get most of the strut parts fabricated yesterday and today even though it was -12F this morning. The heater was working overtime!
I started out by cutting some 1" 6061 T6 tubing to length and one 1 1/4 solid bar stock.


Here are the cut pieces of aluminum, a piece of 1" delrin rod and 2 pieces of 3/8 stainless steel rod.


I then proceeded to male a bunch of parts for the struts. Here are the struts parts so far.


One of the last things to do is drill and tap the bottom piece of the strut for the 1/2-20 axel bolt. I did that in a drill press.


Here is a picture of the top and bottom pieces of the strut mounted to the wheel. I still need to make brackets to hold the backing plate for the drum brake and for the steering rods.


Next on to modifying the frame to accept the new parts

Rick


Reply author: mhelander
Replied on: 01/23/2011 22:41:28
Message:

Looks very sturdy McPerson setup. I'm very interested about resulting drive-ability and weight compared to original setup.

Cheers,
-Mika


Reply author: rickmantoo
Replied on: 01/24/2011 12:17:37
Message:

Mika
Being the first one of these I am doing, I went heaver rather the lighter in the strut parts.

I am also interested in how the drive-ability of vehicle will compare to the original suspension set up. Time will tell. Thanks for the comment!

Rick


Reply author: Garrie L Hill
Replied on: 01/24/2011 14:37:17
Message:

With all of this talk about velo suspensions, I thought everyone could do with a bit of Suspension Porn! From Lamborghini.



Here's a link to the article and MORE pictures!!!! Excuse me while I go change my underwear. http://www.gizmag.com/lamborghini-introduces-pushrod-suspension-to-series-production/17666/

Garrie "carbon based lifeform" Hill
HPRA Co-Dictator of the East
for pics of some of my time and money sucking projects
http://garriehill.winkflash.com/
and
http://s58.photobucket.com/albums/g277/cfbb/
and videos
http://vimeo.com/5513519



Reply author: purplepeopledesign
Replied on: 01/24/2011 16:32:25
Message:

Anybody know what that little link on the bell crank is for?

:)ensen.

Those who claim to be making history are often the same ones repeating it.

Video of my trike
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MdSLRD_2vzc
Photos of my trike
http://www.flickr.com/photos/purplepeople/


Reply author: teubner
Replied on: 01/24/2011 17:00:33
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by purplepeopledesign

Anybody know what that little link on the bell crank is for?


Doesn't look beefy enough for a sway bar


Reply author: mikes
Replied on: 01/25/2011 06:01:25
Message:

Brake line?


Reply author: warren
Replied on: 01/25/2011 06:07:39
Message:

+1 on brake line.


Reply author: purplepeopledesign
Replied on: 01/25/2011 06:26:46
Message:

Brake line looks like it's sticking out from the orange caliper. The part in question stick up between the tire and the shock.

:)ensen.

Those who claim to be making history are often the same ones repeating it.

Video of my trike
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MdSLRD_2vzc
Photos of my trike
http://www.flickr.com/photos/purplepeople/


Reply author: mikes
Replied on: 01/25/2011 07:00:06
Message:

Oh....that link


Reply author: LongJohn
Replied on: 01/25/2011 07:50:42
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by purplepeopledesign

Anybody know what that little link on the bell crank is for?

:)ensen.

Those who claim to be making history are often the same ones repeating it.

Video of my trike
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MdSLRD_2vzc
Photos of my trike
http://www.flickr.com/photos/purplepeople/



I think that's a torsionbar-link to reduce rolling of the automobile during cornering.

Thomas


Reply author: rickmantoo
Replied on: 02/02/2011 08:43:02
Message:

Well I was able to do some work on the frame mods over the weekend. I did not get as far as I hoped to because I had the lathe motor die as I was trying to finish up the parts for the struts. I need to check around town to see if I can get a new one at a good price.

So I did some cutting and brazing on the frame instead.

I tacked together the sliding boom tubing that will raise the crank up 1 1/2".


I then Mounted the frame in my bench vice after I pulled the bench away from the wall and used my tube mitering jig to cut the the frame to accept the new boom.


I printed out a drawing full size for the front swing arms and brazed them together with some coupler nuts and 3/8x 0.035 tubing.


I then took the frame and set it up on a straight flat table and measured where the new mounting points needed to go. This is when I discovered that the front mounting point of the swing arms needed to be where the steering arm was. So I redesigned the swing arms with a bend in the front tube to move the mounting point forward 2 inches.

Here I am bending the swing arm tube.


Here are both swing arms ready to go.


I then mocked up the mounting points for the swing arm on the frame checking alignment and placement a dozen times or so.


Once I convinced my self that the mounting point were aligned. I tacked them in place and then moved the frame back to the vice for the final brazing.


Here is a picture of the swing arms assembled to the frame.


Last thing I did was epoxy the two parts of the strut body together and clamp the while they cure.


So next I need to fix my lathe motor and finish a couple of parts for the struts and then mount them to the frame. Oh yea shovel some snow!

Rick


Reply author: raymondg
Replied on: 02/03/2011 07:57:19
Message:

Ridiculously nice work as usual Rick. Thanks for your continued sharing. Sorry to hear about the lathe motor. I imagine choice words were uttered.

-Raymond


Reply author: rickmantoo
Replied on: 02/03/2011 13:33:25
Message:

Thanks Raymond. It takes 3 times longer to make modifications then to do it right the first time. I am going to take the lathe motor apart and see if It is fixable. I did some checking and it just may be the capacitors.

Rick


Reply author: rickmantoo
Replied on: 02/03/2011 17:08:28
Message:

Well I did some digging into the lathe motor problem and it seams I blew up the run capacitor in my motor. It is a strange size hopefully I will be able to find one in town.


Rick


Reply author: warren
Replied on: 02/17/2011 19:21:37
Message:

I added page 7 to the web log version of Ricks build.

http://www.recumbents.com/wisil/wianecki/velomobile/page7.htm

This gets it caught up to the end of January...

-Warren.


Reply author: rickmantoo
Replied on: 03/05/2011 18:19:39
Message:

It has been a little while since I have been able to work on the modifications to the velomobile.
I got the motor issues worked out and started by machining some brackets to mount the drum brakes on the struts.

I used a boring bar to cut a 1 1/4" radius in the side of a 1/2" aluminum plate. This will be mounted to the struts to attach the brake back plate.


Here are the struts the one on the top is assembled and the one on the the bottom shows all the parts. I still need to make a bracket for the steering arms.


This picture shows the brake drum and the wheel mounted to the strut.


Next thing was to add the strut brackets to the frame. I mounted the frame to a flat piece of countertop and added some 1/8" thick steel brackets to the top of the existing frame.


This picture shows one of the struts mounted to the frame.


Next I will work on getting the steering connected and reinforcing the strut mounts.

Ricl


Reply author: rickmantoo
Replied on: 03/13/2011 15:43:01
Message:

I was able to get a little time to continue to work on the modified front suspension this weekend.
I mounted both struts and front wheels and set the alignment as best I could.


I noticed that the top of one of the strut mounts was misaligned with the steering angle of the strut.


I took this side apart and heated and bent the top of the mount to get it aligned a little better. This will do for now but I think I will adjust some more next time I take it apart.


Next I redid the steering arm and mounted it to the frame.


I then Mounted the tierods and bent up some brackets to attach the tierods to the struts.


Next to do is mount the brackets to the struts and start assembling the rest of the frame.

Rick W


Reply author: warren
Replied on: 03/14/2011 18:45:32
Message:

Hi Rick,

It looks like you are making good progress. Very nice work on the struts. I'll be interested to hear the ride report once you get it back together.

-Warren.


Reply author: rickmantoo
Replied on: 03/15/2011 18:28:50
Message:

Warren
Thanks for the comment. Yes I also want to find out if this in an improvement over the sliding pillar suspension I had on the frame before. Also I increased the track by about 2 inches so the vehicle should be more stable at high speed corners. I hope to have the frame together and out for testing soon.

Rick W


Reply author: warren
Replied on: 03/16/2011 05:55:00
Message:

Does that means you need to split the velo body to widen it two inches as well? :)

-Warren.


Reply author: rickmantoo
Replied on: 03/16/2011 10:04:21
Message:

Warren
I was not think of something so drastic. I am planning on adding some small wheelwell extension/flares if they are needed.

Rick W


Reply author: rickmantoo
Replied on: 03/20/2011 15:46:32
Message:

So I drilled and taped some holes in the side of each of the front struts to mount some aluminum brackets for the steering tie rods.


Here is a picture if the brackets mounted to the struts.


I mounted the struts and steering to the frame and installed the front boom and the chain ring. I need to sort out the chain line next.


Rick W


Reply author: rickmantoo
Replied on: 03/29/2011 16:20:31
Message:

I was able to get the chain line and the Idlers worked out. Changing the front suspension and raising the bottom bracket meant that I had to totally reroute the chain.
This picture shows the revised chain line. Everything is just tacked together


I made the chain tensioner from a piece of old derailer I had in the old parts box. This will allow me to fine tune the bottom bracket position without adding or removing chain links.


Hare is a view from the bottom of the frame showing the suspension and steering rods and the chain alignment.


Next I will assemble the trike and do some road testing before I try to stuff the frame back into the body to see what mods will need to be done to it.

Rick


Reply author: Loki
Replied on: 03/31/2011 16:51:13
Message:

I have been reading your progress reports and wanted to let you know I appreciate the info. I am especially interested in the work you are doing on the front suspension. I just finished building a small trike without front suspension, and I would like to add a suspension. I am thinking of a sliding system that would be simple and light. I was wondering why you changed your mind on your concept for a sliding system. I can see the McPherson struts will be a better solution. Did you change because you wanted something better or did the sliders cause other problems.

Thanks--Lee

Trike Photos
http://s764.photobucket.com/albums/xx289/loki40007/Recumbent%20Tandem%20Trike/
http://s764.photobucket.com/albums/xx289/loki40007/Recumbent%20Trike/


Reply author: rickmantoo
Replied on: 04/03/2011 14:03:16
Message:

Lee

I found that with the sliding kingpin suspension the steering was very sensitive and I had to place the tie rods at very steep angles to try and eliminate the bump steer. I was never happy with how the trike handled at speeds over 25 mph. I am Hoping the new design will be better.

Rick


Reply author: rickmantoo
Replied on: 04/03/2011 14:24:29
Message:

Well I got the frame all assembled and did some adjusting alignment of the front wheels.

I first adjusted the rod ends so the wheels were vertical and had no camber in or out. Here is one of the front wheels before I adjusted the camber. You can see it is leaning outward. Then I adjusted the toe in to 0


Here is a picture of the lower A-Arms and steering rods. With all the rod ends there are allot of adjustments possible.


Here is the completed frame ready for a test ride. Just as I finished it started snowing and raining. Guess I will wait for another day.


Next is to refit the frame in the body and sort out the mounts and start on the electrical.

Rick W


Reply author: teubner
Replied on: 04/03/2011 14:30:39
Message:

No offense intended, but consider putting a couple hundred miles on the frame before you fit the body, in case something has to change.


Reply author: rickmantoo
Replied on: 04/10/2011 15:08:25
Message:

We finally had some nicer weather today so I was able to trike the frame out for a shake down ride for a couple of hours. I am very happy with the results the front suspension and steering are greatly improved and by raising the bottom bracket up the back of my legs do not rub on the front cross tubes. The steering is light and responsive and the trike is stable at all speeds with no bump steer.

I took some pictures of the completed frame outside, I think they show things better then the pictures in the garage.

Here is a front view of the frame siting in my front yard


Here is a close up view of the front suspension


Here is a rear view looking at the battery box


I am still going to ride the frame around to make sure the drive train is bulletproof and I do not have any I issues with chain derailments. I am going to move my focus back to the body and the electrical system.

Rick W


Reply author: rickmantoo
Replied on: 05/04/2011 18:54:58
Message:

I have been able to put some miles on the frame. I am very happy with how everything is working out. I had to do some tweaks to the chain-line and idler placement but that is now working great.
I was really pushing the electric assist hard and the electric motor would loosen and I would drop the chain so I made a better mounting.
Here you can see the top mounting bar had a slot for adjustment. I could not keep this from moving and adding slack to the drive chain.


I made a mount that I can adjust the tension by turning the coupler nut and then locking it in place with a jam nut. This works much better and I have not had any more trouble with the drive chain.


Another thing I did was make some delrin clamps that will allow the seat to rotate forward.
Currently I just have some hose clamps but they scratch and mar the paint.


I do not want that to happen when I repaint the frame so I made some delrin inserts that will go around the tube that will allow the seat tube to rotate without marring the paint.

Here is the delrin insert and the thumb screw clamp I am using.


Here is a picture of the assembled clamp. I made 2.


Next project is remounting the frame in the body.

Rick


Reply author: rickmantoo
Replied on: 06/07/2011 16:46:58
Message:

Finally found some more time to continue on this project. I have been riding the bare frame and it appears everything is working well. I decided to try and refit the frame into the body.

First I lowered the body from it's storage location.


I then removed the wheels and battery from the trike frame.


Next I tried to fit the frame into the body. It took some pushing and I finally got it in place. It became obvious at this point it was not going to just go back the way it was. The new front suspension overall is taller and slightly wider.


I fiddled around for a while to get the frame and front wheels centered in the wheel wells. I then used my vibratory saw to enlarge the openings where the frame sticks through.


What I discovered is the new wheelbase is slightly different then the old wheelbase so none of the mounts lined up. This is one of the problems with modifying the existing frame.

So I modified the rear mount to use the same mounting points on the frame and the body by adding some extensions and a shim.

I then decided to make new front mounts that would support the body at the top of the wheel wells and be bolted to the top of the strut mounts. Here are the mounts brazed up.


This picture shows the new front mount in place.


Next step will be to reinforce the mounting locations with fiberglass and finish the mounting of the lights and turn signals. And of course paint everything.

Rick


Reply author: rickmantoo
Replied on: 06/14/2011 17:41:49
Message:

Before I remove the frame from the body I decided to make the rear wheel enclosure. I decided to use some corroplast I have here Hopefully it will be fairly waterproof . I started by making some cardboard templates to try and get the pieces worked out to clear the rear wheel and suspension. I also wanted a back shelf to hold my water bladder .


Once the Patterns were made I transfered over to the corroplast and cut out the pieces. I decided I would work on the top piece first.


I ordered some box rivets on line to assembly the pieces. Drill a 1/4 inch hole and snap them together. Worked good.


Here is the top piece in the vehicle


Next I will cut out and assemble the remaining pieces.

Rick


Reply author: rickmantoo
Replied on: 06/19/2011 16:49:24
Message:

I started to sort out the parts for the lighting on the Velo. I am going to use some motorcycle marker lights for the turn signals. They come with double sided tape to stick them on but I wanted to do something different. I wanted to be able to bolt them on.

Here is one of the lights the cardboard pattern I made for the mounting plate and hollow threaded lamp stud I got at a lighting supply store.


I cut the threaded lamp studs in half so they were 3/4" long. You can also see the mounting plate pattern and one of the mounting plates.


I laid out and cut 4 mounting plated from 0.032 in. steel sheet.

I then brazed the hollow studs to the backing plates


Here is what the final turn signal assembly will look like. I will clean and paint the mounting bracket and glue the turn signal to the mounting plate.


Next I will a add the tail and brake lights to the body.

Rick


Reply author: rickmantoo
Replied on: 06/26/2011 16:51:37
Message:

Today I started to install the rear taillight lens on the tail of the velomobile.
I first took one of the two plastic lenses that Garrie Hill formed for me and taped it to the body and drew the outline of the lens.


I then cut the shape out.


I taped the lens to the body and traced the outline.


I then used my vibratory saw and careful cut the fiberglass body.


Next I used a wood rasp and contoured the foam on the inside of the body so I can place a fiberglass lip that will support the edge of the tail light lens.


Once the foam is shaped the lens is taped back on so that it lines up with the fiberglass. This will be the form for the glass and epoxy that will be added to the inside. Additional tape will be added all around the lens to keep it aligned with the body.


When I do the glassing at the tail light lens I will also reinforce the new front body mount locations and the area around the front suspension openings that I has to enlarge. Here are these areas ready for epoxy and glass.


Next is to do the last of the fiberglass work.

Rick


Reply author: rickmantoo
Replied on: 06/29/2011 16:53:09
Message:

I was able to do some fiberglass work on the body.

First I taped the tail light lens even with the body cut out all the way around. This will allow me to add some fiberglass on the inside and this will create a lip to attach the lens to.


I then laid the body on its side and added a layer of glass cloth over any exposed foam. I also added 2 layers of cloth to create the tail light lens lip. You can also see the ledge I created to support the rear tire cover and shelf.


Here is a picture of the fiberglass in the inside of the tail light lens.


Here is a picture looking at the tail light lens from the outside. Once the epoxy sets I will trim the fiberglass to give me about 1/2" lip all around the lense.


I also added some carbon cloth to reinforce the front body mounts and made sure I attached the inner fiberglass skin to the outer wherever there was an exposed edge at a cut out.


Next Back to the lighting system. I have still not determined where I am going to put the headlight. Most likely will cut a hole and mount it in the nose.

Rick


Reply author: warren
Replied on: 07/02/2011 12:45:47
Message:

Looks great Rick!


Reply author: rickmantoo
Replied on: 07/04/2011 08:35:56
Message:

Thanks Warren! I think I am headed down the home stretch on this project.

So the next thing I did after the epoxy cured is remove the tail light lens . I used a thin putty knife and worked it in slowly around the edge of the plastic. One thing that would of helped would have been to of waxed or use some mold release on the inside of the plastic.


I then Marked a 1/2" wide lip and cut it off with my vibratory saw.


I then had to decide on what the tail light assembly would actually be. I decided to use 3-30 bulb LED Tail/Brake light bulbs. Spaced vertically and mounted on a polished metal plate. I developed a cardboard/foam template that I will use to check the fit and alignment.


I then put together and wired the tail light assembly.


Here it is mounted in the body. There is a protective plastic coating on the polished side of the metal and I do have a another plastic lens that I will use when everything is finished.


Next I determined where I will be placing the LED turn signals and drilled holes for the mounting. Here is the front signal placement.


Here is the rear signal placement.


Lastly I bonded some aluminum stops in the floor to support the bottom of the rear fender enclosure.


Next step will be doing the final body work and paint. Still have not settled on a color. Green? Yellow? Orange? Red? White? Blue? So many colors Might have to flip a coin.

Rick


Reply author: rickmantoo
Replied on: 07/09/2011 13:35:52
Message:

So I started the process of doing the final sanding on the body before I can paint it. Still have not settled on a color.

So I have been using a carbon black guide coat and trying to get the panels as smooth as possible. I am using a lightweight filler in the low spots and sanding back to the fiberglass layer to try and not add too much extra weight.

Here is the left rear corner. I clamp the body to my work table to hold it for sanding.


Here is the left side.


I am going to mount the headlight in the nose. I ordered a Magicshine I will cut the opening and make the mounts once it arrives.


Next More sanding!!

Rick


Reply author: rickmantoo
Replied on: 07/20/2011 13:38:23
Message:

Well I ordered a MagicShine light that I will mount in the front of the body. I first dropped a plumb line and marked the location to drill a 1 3/4" hole.


Next I cut out the fiberglass and foam on the in side on the nose.


I then fabricated up a light mount out of some 1" wide aluminum strips.


I drilled a hole in the front of the body so the light will just fit with a little clearance.


I then fabricated some mounting studs that will get bonded into the body. The studs are shown in their approximate location.


Next I will add several layers to fiberglass to bond in the studs and seal up the exposed foam.

One more thing while I was out riding the trike I noticed a ticking noise coming from the front wheel while I turned. It turned out to be the steering control arm was bending and pushing the spedo pickup into the front wheel spokes. So I need to remake the front steering arms a bit more beefier.


Rick


Reply author: RedskinsJBS
Replied on: 07/20/2011 17:48:54
Message:

Rick,

Hi! I am new posting here, but I have been watching your build for the past 6 months or so. I have to say that I really am addicted to your build and it has played a large part in getting me hooked on velomobiles.

I forget now how I came upon velomobiles, but I think that they are the perfect solution for me. I am an engineering student and I think that building my own VM would be the perfect project over the next year.

I am no stranger to long projects... in high school I restored a 1972 Opel GT and I later built a 10' x 2' Gantry CNC machine... Both big year-plus projects.

Ok... enough of an introduction, on to my question. Do you have the measurements for your frame? Warren made a post at the beginning of the thread (I know, a long time ago) with a photo of the bare trike, but no measurements were ever posted. And you had a post of the basic layout of the fairing with some measurements, but not enough for me to work from. I ask because I am looking for a basic design where I could obtain all of the critical dimensions and then improve upon the design via some FEA so that I could lighten the trike a bit... And I like your design a lot because you use some big tubing with a few simple cuts to create a very stiff design; which means it shouldn't require that much improvement.

I have a CNC machine and a full Solidworks software suite, so I plan on designing the entire thing in CAD, building the frame by hand and have the CNC cut the profiles that I will 'stripfoam' to shape. I think that its the fastest route considering the amount of work that this will take... Plus I'll get to use my CNC router.

Ok, this post got very long... I think that it may be time to start my own thread.

Again, just looking for some basic helpful measurements at the moment. For sure there will be a lot more to come, but I think that I will create my own thread to ask the rest of those.

Jay Swift


Reply author: rickmantoo
Replied on: 07/21/2011 12:08:32
Message:

Jay

I do have some drawings of the frame with dimensions that I have not posted before and I can send you full size drawings of the fairing skeleton. The base frame is 1.75" .035" wall tubing I buy mill length tubing lengths and use that size for most of the frames I build. I am not sure I have a dimensioned drawing of the frame with all the front suspension mods that is presentable since I modified the original design. I will dig through my files. PM me and we can discuss further. Thanks for looking at the project.

Rick


Reply author: rickmantoo
Replied on: 07/23/2011 15:03:29
Message:

I did not work on sanding the body but I did fabricate some new steering arm brackets out of steel to replace the bent aluminum one on the trike. Garrie Hill is going to fabricate some carbon angles when he gets some time so the new steel steering brackets will work for now.

I first removed the bent bracket from the trike.


I then transfered the hole locations to some 1" wide 1/8" thisk steel bar I have.


Once the holes were Drilled I bent the steel bar in my vice. here is a picture comparing the steel and aluminum brackets for the Right front wheel.


Here is the bracket for left front wheel installed. Took the trike for A ride and it is working good.


Rick


Reply author: warren
Replied on: 07/24/2011 18:40:50
Message:

Bracket man strikes again!


Reply author: Larry Lem
Replied on: 07/24/2011 19:42:32
Message:

A cadence sensor bracket attached to a steering arm bracket.

Larry Lem


Reply author: rickmantoo
Replied on: 07/25/2011 07:35:36
Message:

Larry

That is the spedo sensor from the Cycle Analyst I am using to monitor the electrical stuff.

Rick


Reply author: Larry Lem
Replied on: 07/25/2011 07:54:48
Message:

Somehow, I had the word "cadence" in my head. Yes, magnet on wheel, not crank!

Larry Lem


Reply author: rickmantoo
Replied on: 07/25/2011 13:22:07
Message:

Larry

Yes that happens to me all the time.

While I had the trike out for a ride I discovered that all the spokes on the inside of the left wheel were loose. Must be from the bracket effect. I will fix that also.

Rick


Reply author: rickmantoo
Replied on: 07/31/2011 13:03:53
Message:

Worked on the Velo again. Garrie Hill wants to meet up with the ROAM velomobiles in Indiana mid august so I need to get serious about finishing this thing. I think I will need to add a air vent so I laid a 6" NACA duct on the top in front of the windshield.


The inside foam layer was cut out and and then a layer of fiberglass was added. The next day I painted the inside of the top and bottom with a Duratech primer.
Here is the top painted


I also Painted the inside of the lower section on the body.


I am dissembling the frame and will get that painted next.

Rick


Reply author: rickmantoo
Replied on: 07/31/2011 13:10:40
Message:

So I have been considering what color to paint the outside of the velomoble. I asked Allen A for his thoughts and he sent me the color scheme below.


I like it and am seriously considering painting it that color.
I played around on Photoshop and came up with a red and white striped scheme. I Need to work on the strip layout a little and add some stars but it may also be a contender.


I need to decide soon.

Rick


Reply author: teubner
Replied on: 07/31/2011 13:44:12
Message:

If in doubt, but on a basecoat of bright white. Any color you want will benefit from the white on the bottom. Or you may decide to keep it unless you plan on riding in the snow.


Reply author: rickmantoo
Replied on: 07/31/2011 16:27:02
Message:

Brad

That is a Great suggestion, I may do that just because of the time thing!

Rick W


Reply author: OleBent1
Replied on: 08/03/2011 15:21:39
Message:

Don't know how much you're worried about this, but don't forget that dark top colors can really draw in the heat. No fun to bake inside a largely enclosed space.

Mike
(Cruzbike Sofrider V2.1)


Reply author: mikeatlbch
Replied on: 08/03/2011 19:42:00
Message:

Rick
Go white and then get the advertiser to pay for the reflective wrap and profits...
Or just to advertise your favorite fruit.

Mike


Reply author: teubner
Replied on: 08/03/2011 20:41:24
Message:

Garrie mentioned that you wanted the bottom white also, to reflect the road heat. I'm not sure how to find the IR reflectivty index for paint, but it may have nothing to do with the visible color.


Reply author: Garrie L Hill
Replied on: 08/04/2011 07:56:00
Message:

"When designing an infrared reflective coating, maximizing total solar reflectance and emissivity, and minimizing all contamination by infrared absorbing materials is a necessity. Contamination must be eliminated from infrared reflective dispersions in order to achieve optimal reflectivity properties.

Impact of Visual Color on Total Solar Reflectance

Since visible light consists of approximately 42% of the solar terrestrial irradiance, the visible color of infrared pigmentation will dictate the maximum achievable total solar reflective benefit. All things being equal, the darker the visible color, the lower the total solar reflectance. Rutile titanium dioxide continues to be the base pigmentation of choice in highly reflective white coatings. Titanium dioxide exhibits excellent light scattering and infrared reflectance due to its high refractive index, however, the primary particle size is optimized to scatter light most efficiently in the 500-550 nanometer region."


i.e. - Since titanium dioxide is the base pigment in nearly all paints ( replacing good ole' lead oxide ), and the only pigment in the bright white paints which Rick would use, white is as good as it gets (short of going to gold, which is the supreme IR reflector).

White = good
Darker colors = not so much

On a similar line of thinking: Don't forget that Rick's velo is styrofoam core construction. After the outer surface heats up in the sun, the Igloo Cooler on Wheels resists heat conduction to the inside. Keeping adequate airflow through the inside to outside then keeps the rider from cooking in his own waste heat.

Garrie "carbon based lifeform" Hill
HPRA Co-Dictator of the East
for pics of some of my time and money sucking projects
http://garriehill.winkflash.com/
and
http://s58.photobucket.com/albums/g277/cfbb/
and videos
http://vimeo.com/5513519



Reply author: teubner
Replied on: 08/04/2011 10:18:15
Message:

Garrie,
Do you know if that also applies to the long wavelength IR coming up from the 180F black asphalt?


Reply author: Garrie L Hill
Replied on: 08/04/2011 10:58:04
Message:

Yes, it does, Brad. For FIR ( 50 - 1000 µm ) only silver or gold mirrors ( or polished 1100 series aluminum mirrors) are better for FIR . I have found one interesting tidbit, however. If you add barium sulfate to the non-tinted, white titanium dioxide paint ( in a 60/40% mix) the reflectivity in all parts of the IR-visible-UV spectrum increases "dramatically". Now, what number is associated with "dramatically", I was not able to find.

Garrie "carbon based lifeform" Hill
HPRA Co-Dictator of the East
for pics of some of my time and money sucking projects
http://garriehill.winkflash.com/
and
http://s58.photobucket.com/albums/g277/cfbb/
and videos
http://vimeo.com/5513519



Reply author: warren
Replied on: 08/04/2011 12:05:43
Message:

Isn't barium radioactive?


Reply author: Garrie L Hill
Replied on: 08/04/2011 13:59:24
Message:

Barium Sulfate which, in this case, is not one of the radioactive isotopes.

Garrie "carbon based lifeform" Hill
HPRA Co-Dictator of the East
for pics of some of my time and money sucking projects
http://garriehill.winkflash.com/
and
http://s58.photobucket.com/albums/g277/cfbb/
and videos
http://vimeo.com/5513519



Reply author: alevand
Replied on: 08/05/2011 17:54:29
Message:

Yes barium beta decays to the element lanthanum which decays to cerium...

If I use white coroplast, should I paint it with TiO2 or bumper chrome aluminum paint?



C:
Tony Levand


Reply author: rickmantoo
Replied on: 08/07/2011 09:30:41
Message:

Thanks for all the comments on the paint. I understand the concept of the darker colors heating up the the inside of the trike. I am leaning to the yellow for the paint color we will see.

Rick


Reply author: rickmantoo
Replied on: 08/07/2011 09:48:29
Message:

OK so I decided to clean up the frame and get it painted.

I first dismantled everything.


Then I sanded and cleaned up all the brazed joints where modifications were made to the main frame. I know the second rule in frame building is That Once the Frame is Painted an Obvious Modification will be Required. I am willing to accept that and I have extra paint!

Here is the main frame and battery support painted blue and drying.


I next gathered up all the other supports and brackets and non-aluminum suspension parts. They were also cleaned up.


I painted these parts silver to match the brushed aluminum on the struts and steering.


I will give there parts a couple of days to cure before reassembling the chassis. Back to getting the body ready for paint.

Rick



Reply author: rickmantoo
Replied on: 08/07/2011 09:49:33
Message:

OK so I decided to clean up the frame and get it painted.

I first dismantled everything.


Then I sanded and cleaned up all the brazed joints where modifications were made to the main frame. I know the second rule in frame building is That Once the Frame is Painted an Obvious Modification will be Required. I am willing to accept that and I have extra paint!

Here is the main frame and battery support painted blue and drying.


I next gathered up all the other supports and brackets and non-aluminum suspension parts. They were also cleaned up.


I painted these parts silver to match the brushed aluminum on the struts and steering.


I will give there parts a couple of days to cure before reassembling the chassis. Back to getting the body ready for paint.

Rick



Reply author: teubner
Replied on: 08/07/2011 13:52:26
Message:

When I reassembled after painting, I kept track all of the tools used and have a functionally equivalent set in the bike. Most of the standard stuff my bike multi-tool covers, but not the 1/4 Allen, 7/16 nuts, and a couple different Torx.


Reply author: rickmantoo
Replied on: 08/09/2011 14:05:04
Message:

Brad
Thanks that is a great tip. I have a special set of hex-keys that I use but not the wrenches.

Rick


Reply author: rickmantoo
Replied on: 08/28/2011 16:13:00
Message:

Well I finally got some time to work on the final assembly of the velomobile frame.
I set the frame on my work table and cleaned up all the internal threads. I taped any external threads so they were not painted.


I then started to do the final assembly of the pieces. I used locking nuts where ever I could on the suspension parts and blue LocTite every where else


Here is the rear of the frame right before I installed the intermediate drive and electric motor.


I kept going and did not take any more assembly pictures.

Rick


Reply author: rickmantoo
Replied on: 08/28/2011 16:35:27
Message:

So the frame is assembled and I have had it out on a couple of shake down runs. Still some small adjustments but it is running good.

Here is a side view of the completed frame.


Here is a view looking at the front suspension.


Here is a closer look at the front a-arm mount and the steering arm and tie rods.


Here is the handle bars as viewed from the seat. I still need to add the switch for the turn signals.


Here is a view of the electric motor and the intermediate drive. I need to find a slightly longer bottombracket the the 113mm one I am currently using needs to be longer to help with the chain alihnment.


Here is the lower seat mount. The seat tube rotates in the delrin bushings


And here is the rear seat mount that uses a front wheel skewers to make the connections.


The battery box still needs the final paint and a better disconnect swith.


Last picture is the mounting and the brackets for the Rholoff Hub and disk break.


Next back to the Body to get that ready for Paint and graphics. I will be riging the frame around to make sure I sort out any additional bugs.

Rick W



Reply author: warren
Replied on: 08/28/2011 18:48:11
Message:

Very pretty!


Reply author: teubner
Replied on: 08/28/2011 19:16:20
Message:

I've got some nice handlebar mount switches (google image "polaris 4110040" to get an idea of the package).
Simialr to item J on this page: http://www.fullthrottletahoe.com/fullthro/publicstore/images/catalog-specs/09SnowPages/09Snow%20270.pdf
The problem is that mine are 3-wire OFF-LO-HI so are mot intuitive for turn signals. Let me know if you want one.


Reply author: rickmantoo
Replied on: 08/29/2011 08:37:10
Message:

Brad
Thanks for the offer. I have a 3-position switch that is from an e-bike. It alteady has R and L marked on the switch. I just need to make a mounting bracket for it and the break light switch (which I stll need to find)

Rick W


Reply author: OpusthePoet
Replied on: 08/30/2011 14:40:45
Message:

I LOLed at the warning label on that battery box!

Opus

My gas is up to $0.99 a burrito, $5.99 for premium and I'm only getting 10 miles to the regular burrito. Dang $0.99 burritos are smaller now.


Reply author: rickmantoo
Replied on: 09/01/2011 05:48:13
Message:

Opus

Now that CERN has the Large Hadron Collider running the antimatter is a little easer to get.

Rick


Reply author: jjackstone
Replied on: 09/01/2011 09:22:14
Message:

Aye laddie, and where do ya keep the di-lithium crystals?


Reply author: rickmantoo
Replied on: 09/01/2011 12:42:04
Message:

Funny you should ask about the Crystals, I have been having one hell of a time trying to get them to work with the parts I got at the Area 51 Surplus Store.

Rick


Reply author: teubner
Replied on: 09/01/2011 16:37:21
Message:

Rick,
That's because the Area 51 stuff has left hand twist on the molecular structure. I think that Garrie Hill has a device to correct that problem so at least you can get adhesives to stick.


Reply author: Upright Mike
Replied on: 09/04/2011 18:05:28
Message:

Rick I'm surprised you don't have some of this on that machine of yours.. "Transparent Aluminum!, that's the ticket laddie, Now is that worth sumthing to ya?"

- Scotty from Star Trek when they go back in time to save the whales and Earth


Reply author: rickmantoo
Replied on: 10/02/2011 16:40:11
Message:

So I finally was able to get the body painted. I used rattle cans (Krylon)and it turned out pretty good.

I first painted the body yellow.


I then painted some orange around the wheel wells.


I then masked out the center section, and painted it red


Here is the finished painted body



I am going to let the paint dry for a day or so and then I will install the frame and finish up the wiring.

Rick


Reply author: warren
Replied on: 10/02/2011 17:23:45
Message:

That looks really nice Rick, nobody should be able to give you you the "I didn't see you" excuse...

-Warren.


Reply author: rickmantoo
Replied on: 10/03/2011 07:48:39
Message:

Warren
Thanks for the comment. I am planning on having it all together and working for the Ohio races this weekend.

Rick


Reply author: lucky8matt
Replied on: 11/27/2011 12:53:28
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by rickmantoo

Warren
Thanks for the comment. I am planning on having it all together and working for the Ohio races this weekend.

Rick



do you have your website up with the foam skeleton plans yet or can I buy them off you thanks???


Reply author: rickmantoo
Replied on: 11/28/2011 06:08:14
Message:

Mr. lucky...

I do not have the template files posted on line. If you like you could send me a PM and we can discuss getting you the files.

Rick


Reply author: rickmantoo
Replied on: 12/04/2011 18:06:24
Message:

I finally got around to working on the wiring for the lighting on the velo. I mounted the turn signals and the rear stop/brake lights. There is a clear plastic cover that will finish off the tail lights.

Here is picture of the rear of the vehicle.


I then ran the wires on the inside inside 3/8" plastic split housing to a spot on the back side of the left wheel well.


I made a cardboard template of the switch housing and made it big enough to house the signal flasher and terminal strip.


I then made the final housing out of aluminum sheet. I will paint it black.


The next step was mounting the terminal block and connecting the wires. I has to install several connectors so I could disconnect the power and the handle bar controls from the body when I removed the frame.

Here is a picture of the in progress wiring.


A switch was mounted on the brake lever to trigger the brake lights.


Here is a picture of the handle bar controls for turn signals and tail light with a button for a future horn.


Here is the completed switch box. the silver box below is a 24 volt to 12 volt DC-DC converter.


And while I was at it I added a water bottle holder on the back of the right wheel well.


Rick W


Reply author: warren
Replied on: 12/05/2011 17:24:50
Message:

Dang, now you have just as fine a product as Aptera had before they folded up shop, except that you don't need a government loan for 150 million dollars to stay solvent.

-Warren.


Reply author: rickmantoo
Replied on: 12/06/2011 06:06:08
Message:

Warren
The vehicle is turning out nice. Still have to get the headlight controls working. I could go into business building something better then this for about 1/50 of that price. But I would have to do an around the word fact finding mission first.

Rick


Reply author: Garrie L Hill
Replied on: 12/06/2011 06:38:06
Message:

" But I would have to do an around the word fact finding mission first."

And, since that would be such exhausting work, Rick would need two weeks at the end of the tour to recuperate... in Hawaii!!

Garrie "carbon based lifeform" Hill
HPRA Co-Dictator of the East
for pics of some of my time and money sucking projects
http://garriehill.winkflash.com/
and
http://s58.photobucket.com/albums/g277/cfbb/
and videos
http://vimeo.com/5513519



Reply author: Garrie L Hill
Replied on: 12/06/2011 06:41:30
Message:

" But I would have to do an around the word fact finding mission first."

And, since that would be such exhausting work, Rick would need two weeks at the end of the tour to recuperate... in Hawaii!!

Garrie "carbon based lifeform" Hill
HPRA Co-Dictator of the East
for pics of some of my time and money sucking projects
http://garriehill.winkflash.com/
and
http://s58.photobucket.com/albums/g277/cfbb/
and videos
http://vimeo.com/5513519



Reply author: rickmantoo
Replied on: 12/06/2011 07:37:11
Message:

Garrie

Did not think about the recovery period, Very good point! Maybe not Hawaii but maybe Cancun.

Rick


Reply author: ckaudio
Replied on: 12/07/2011 20:26:33
Message:

Hey Rick, so when do you want to go for a velo ride? I've been putting lots of miles in the quest lately. The colder weather is kinda ideal for riding!


Reply author: rickmantoo
Replied on: 12/18/2011 15:29:53
Message:

Chris
Sorry I have not gotten back to you sooner, I have been out of town. Yes we should try and get together and ride. I have not been out all that much like you.

Rick


Reply author: paul-n
Replied on: 12/20/2011 22:56:16
Message:

Hi there

I have been watching your build for some time and it is very impressive.

As soon as I am retired [ 10 months with a bit of luck ! ]I want to attempt a velomobile build , by building a trike as per you and J.Tetz and then probably a wooded frame with stringers and model aircraft covering [ my current comfort zone ].

Could you please tell me where you got the springs & elastomer's from in your original suspension ?

Was it a geometry problem that caused the bump steer issues ? John has not reported this problem.

Sadly I am in the UK so will have some problem finding equivalents I think, although I do know ICE trike's advertise elastomer's for their models available separately.

regards Paul


Reply author: rickmantoo
Replied on: 12/21/2011 10:21:18
Message:

Paul

Thanks for checking in on the project it is almost complete.

The the suspension springs I used are die springs from McMastar Carr, You should be able to get something like I used in the UK. I used the same springs in both suspension setups. The main issue with the sliding pilar suspension in my opinion was not being able to get the tie rods to piviot in the same arc the king pins were moving. Good luck on your project and start a build log so we can watch as you build.

Rick


Reply author: ckaudio
Replied on: 12/21/2011 14:16:13
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by rickmantoo

Chris
Sorry I have not gotten back to you sooner, I have been out of town. Yes we should try and get together and ride. I have not been out all that much like you.

Rick



Thats ok, you've got electric assist so lack of riding shouldn't be too much of an issue I wouldn't think....
Now we just have to find some time probably on a weekend so we can do a ride. Cant be this weekend or probably the next weekend due to the holidays so into january then as long as the weather holds out and we don't get a bunch of snow dumped on the roads.


Reply author: paul-n
Replied on: 12/22/2011 22:11:07
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by rickmantoo

Paul

The the suspension springs I used are die springs from McMastar Carr, You should be able to get something like I used in the UK.

Rick



Rick

Never heard of them before but yes they are available in the UK , I assume you took a guess of the finished weigh with you on board and divided it by 3 for the spring rating ? Or is it more complicated than that ? I seem to remember you referring to the springs as medium and you could go harder ? Does the colour mean anything ? they all seemed to have different colours ?

regards Paul

ps sorry for all the questions


Reply author: rickmantoo
Replied on: 12/25/2011 14:10:55
Message:

Paul

Yes I just guessed on the capacity of the springs i needed between 75-100 lb/in of compression and about 1 1/2" travel. so far they appear to be working just fine for me. The color of the springs corresponds to their capacity.

Rick


Reply author: rickmantoo
Replied on: 12/25/2011 14:36:44
Message:

OK so I did some work on the headlight for the velomoble. I made a bracket that the Magicshine 900 lumen Light will bolt to and could be attached to the velo. The bracket has a thumb sctew adjuster to adjust the tilt of the light and I will attach a brake cable to remotely turn the light off and on.


Here is a picture with the light mounted in the nose of the velomoble. You can see the brake cable that pulls on a rod that pushes on the light button.


The cable comes back to the left fender and is attached to a bracket. I still need to make a knob of some sort to go over the cable to make it easer to pull.


While the vehicle is in the garage I found it very convent to move it around by lifting up in the back by the rear tail light. So when I put the tail light lens on the handle went away.
Here is a picture of how I was lifting the back of the velo.


Here is a picture of the new slot I added to the back. I will make some sort on inside piece someday.


Here is the tail light lens installed


The last thing I did was finish cutting the coroplast for the rear wheel covering.


Rick


Reply author: rickmantoo
Replied on: 12/26/2011 16:58:34
Message:

I was able to do some more of the little things on the velo.

Where the frame goes through the wheel wells there is a large opening that I need to fill in, I also have to make it removable so I can get the frame in and out of the body.

Here is a picture of one of the openings.


So I made some cardboard patterns and traced them out on some 1/2" thick zote foam. I then cut them out about 3/8" bigger on all sides.


Once the piece was cut out I used my vibratory saw and cut a 3/8" deep slot all around on the outside edge. This slot will slide over the edge of the opening.


I then fitted the piece in the opening to close it off. This side needa a little triming to fit better around the frame.


Here is a view at the bottom where the suspension and steering arms are.


Here is a view from the out side in the wheel well. Worked pretty well and the foam still gives a little during steering and suspension travel.


Rick


Reply author: rickmantoo
Replied on: 12/26/2011 17:28:44
Message:

Here is another part of the project I have been working on for a while. I decided I needed ( wanted) a roof/top for the velomoble. I could of just gone out a ordered a Flevlo roof but what would be the fun in that. So I drew up a shape similar to the Flevlo and created some patterns. I printed the patterns out and cut the shaped out of some 3/4" thick Styrofoam.


I then assembled the skeleton and started to cover with 1/2" thick strips of foam just like the rest of the velomoble.


Once all the strips were glued on I sanded and covered with 2 layers of 8 oz fiberglass.


I then covered the plug with several layers of plastic wrap and laid up 2 more layers of glass. Once that cured I removed the the thin shell from the plug and mounted it on the body with some 1/8" thick by 3/4" wide aluminum strips for the front struts and velcro so it could be removed.


I painted it red to match the top of the body and attached the window with some plastic rivets.


Here is a side view with the top on.


Here is a frontish view.


Time to take it out for a ride.

Rick


Reply author: rickmantoo
Replied on: 01/01/2012 14:58:58
Message:

So I returned from my ride with a rubbing-clunking sound coming from the right front wheel well when I made turns. I also had a my first flat tire! When it rains it snows here. So I fixed the flat and discovered that the epoxy joint between the 2-parts of the strut housing failed on the right strut and the parts were shifting about 20 degrees out of alignment.

Here is a picture of the failed epoxy joint.


So I dismantled both front struts to see what happened and develop a fix. It looked like the epoxy only bonded to the upper strut tube and not to the lower piece. So I cleaned off the old epoxy and prepared to etch the aluminum before rebounding. I will also add some screws to mechanically fasten the pieces together.

Here the strut bodies before etching. The left strut was not broken so I will just add some machine screws to that one,


Here is a picture of the ends of the strut in the etch solution. Not sure I did this the first time around.


I drilled and taped 3 holes about 120 degrees apart around the strut.


Here is the left strut with the SS machine screws installed. After 24 hours I will do the same to the right strut


I then reassembled the strut and installed them back on the velo. Will have to wait until it stops snowing to take it for another ride.


I also added a handle to the head light switch cable. It is one of my dogs a practice golf balls ( she is a 3 handicap) at lest the color matches.


The last thing I did was start to make a pattern so I can make some wheel cover for the front wheels. Here is the base form that I made out of some scrap lumber. I will shape the inside with bondo or plaster.


Rick


Reply author: OpusthePoet
Replied on: 01/02/2012 14:50:02
Message:

It's a trike, why would you meed to wait for the snow to stop falling before riding? It isn't like you can fall down from it if you lose traction.

Opus

My gas is up to $0.99 a burrito, $5.99 for premium and I'm only getting 10 miles to the regular burrito. Dang $0.99 burritos are smaller now.


Reply author: jason1973tl
Replied on: 01/06/2012 18:11:03
Message:

Beautiful build. I love the paint scheme you used. I can't wait to see it until its done.


Reply author: rickmantoo
Replied on: 03/03/2012 16:21:45
Message:


Jason thanks for the comments the velomoble has been working great .I have not had it out much but spring is coming so I will be out with it more. There are a couple of this things I wanted to change or add. The top I built is a little narrow so I decided to start making a different one. I first laid out the sections on some 1/2 pink foam.


I them cut them out assembled the skeleton and started adding the strips of foam.


Here is a comparison between the first top mold I made on the right and the new wider one on the left.


I still need to cover the foam with some fiberglass and epoxy. I am going to try and form some zote foam over the new shape and see if I can get something to work. Otherwise I will make another fiberglass top.

The paint on the velo looks good but I wanted to add a little more so I ordered up some decals online. First I positioned the decal on the side.


I then transfered the decal to the body and then outlined it with some reflecting pin stripe tape. Took about 3 hours to get both sides done but it adds that something extra.


Here is a closer vier of the finished decal with pin striping.


So the project is getting close to being finished, but are they ever finished? I still need to make the front wheel covers and finish the new top.

Rick


Reply author: warren
Replied on: 03/05/2012 08:05:34
Message:

I like that much better than the orange around the wheel wells!


Reply author: rickmantoo
Replied on: 03/05/2012 12:37:57
Message:

Warren

Yes I like it better than the orange around the wheel wells. (Must have been the fumes at the time.) I need to find some solvent free wax to protect the colors before I take it on the road.

Rick


Reply author: PoiterH
Replied on: 03/06/2012 13:34:11
Message:

Maybe "Lypoxy" would work for the Flevo Roof?
Lypoxy = Stretch lycra over the mould and a suitable release layer. Wet out with epoxy resin and let dry.
It should hold the shape. Maybe some ribs in the mould would be good too?
Given me some ideas to try out anyway.
Pete


Reply author: Jackrabbit Jimmy
Replied on: 03/06/2012 14:01:54
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by PoiterH

Maybe "Lypoxy" would work for the Flevo Roof?
Lypoxy = Stretch lycra over the mould and a suitable release layer. Wet out with epoxy resin and let dry.
It should hold the shape. Maybe some ribs in the mould would be good too?
Given me some ideas to try out anyway.
Pete



Speaking from personal experience, it will hold a shape until it gets heated by the sun then go limp. Having it light coloured would help somewhat but a layer of carbon or fibreglass on top of the lycra would do a lot to having it retain it's shape.

Jackrabbit Jimmy


Reply author: rickmantoo
Replied on: 03/07/2012 17:29:29
Message:

Jimmy/Pete
I have been trying to form a 1/4 thick piece of zote foam over the top. I need to cover it with some fabric next and make some supports. WE will see how this works.


Rick


Reply author: rickmantoo
Replied on: 03/09/2012 06:24:25
Message:

Mr Soup

Thanks for the comments about my build. For me there is no magic program that creates this stuff. I am basically doing all my sections in 2D like one would do them on a drawing board only in the computer. I draw a top view and a side view of the object in question. I draw intermediate sections at major parting lines. I use basic orthographic projection techniques I learned in high school drafting class to draw each section by hand in the front view. I display several of the section I have already completed and see how the shapes flow together. I keep doing this until I have all the sections drawn. I may go back and revise the top and side views to match the sections if I discover something that needs adjusting. Once the sections are completed they could be exported to the NC cutters. There are programs out there that my do all this but this is how I combine the old school (drafting) with the computer stuff. This all takes time I spend 30-40 hours developing sections for one of these projects. But that is nothing compared to the time and effort it takes to build the project. Keep plugging away and post your progress.

Rick


Reply author: Speedbiker
Replied on: 03/09/2012 08:02:35
Message:

Nice flames, Rick. I can't think of a nicer, more complete home built velo.


Reply author: rickmantoo
Replied on: 03/09/2012 10:08:52
Message:

Thanks Thom

Now I need to get out and Ride the thing. If it wasent for this work thing!!!

Rick


Reply author: rickmantoo
Replied on: 01/21/2013 16:54:51
Message:

Well it has been some time since I posted so I thought I would show a couple of up grades to the velomoble. I never liked the fiberglass top I made it was too narrow and did not curve down far enough in the front. I tried making a top out of zote foam but that did not work out because the pattern I made was not the right shape. So I made another foam plug. This was the 4 th one so I am getting good at it. I cover the plug with 2 layers of cooking wrap instead of going through the process of waxing and mold release. I used a light spray of glue to hold things in place.


And then covered the plug with 2 layers of 5.8 oz. carbon fabric.


Once the epoxy cured I trimmed the carbon to the desired shape and added the lexan window and bent up some 3/4" aluminum stock for supports. Here is a picture comparing the new top to the original one I made. You can see the shape is a little wider, and has more of a curve to it.


From the side you can see the front curves down more.


I attached the top the same as the other one with velcro dots since I do not have to remove the top to enter the velo. I used some pop rivets to secure the front supports to the carbon top.


Here you can see the canopy stays attached when the top is opened.


Here is a picture of the canopy on the vehicle. It is working much better then the other tops I have made so far. I may try making another foam top in the future, maybe??


The other thing I did was make a neck rest out of zote foam that I had left over from the failed foam top. It is made to adjust it's position with a velcro strap. Here is the neck rest in the position that works for me right now.


There is a velcro strap that attaches to the back of the seat and allows for easy adjustability


Rick


Reply author: beckieanne
Replied on: 05/17/2013 18:02:10
Message:

This post has been a true inspiration. i was wondering if any plans were available?

Beckie Ann Weaver


Reply author: rickmantoo
Replied on: 05/19/2013 14:21:00
Message:

Beckie
I do have full size patterns for the body. I do not have any detailed step-by-step plans to complete the entire project.

Rick

quote]Originally posted by beckieanne

This post has been a true inspiration. i was wondering if any plans were available?

Beckie Ann Weaver
[/quote]


Reply author: beckieanne
Replied on: 05/19/2013 16:03:37
Message:

Rickmantoo
thank you for your response. are the patterns just for the body, or do they also include the bike it self?


Beckie Ann Weaver


Reply author: rickmantoo
Replied on: 05/20/2013 08:52:09
Message:

Beckie

I do not have complete drawings for the trike chassis that is in the body shell. I have posted what I have throughout this thread.
I hope this helps.

Rick


Reply author: beckieanne
Replied on: 05/23/2013 14:30:23
Message:

Rickmantoo
sorry for the long delay, i would very much like a copy of the patterns for the shell and any others that you think might be of help. my husband has decided to build two bikes( one for me, one for him)and he would like to make the shells out of carbon fiber.
thanks in advance
Beckie Ann
p.s: please let me know in wich way you would like to send me the files.(my e-mail... alizeea52@gmail.com)

Beckie Ann Weaver


Reply author: robisuabe
Replied on: 08/30/2013 07:59:58
Message:

Hi Rick:
I would like to know how havy is your Velomobile. Thank you.


Reply author: rickmantoo
Replied on: 08/30/2013 15:51:09
Message:

Rob
Finished weight the body with all mounting and electrical is 45 pounds.
The frame with E-assist and battery is 50 pounds
So the total weight is 95 pounds.
I hope this helps

Rick


Reply author: robisuabe
Replied on: 08/31/2013 07:26:08
Message:

Hi rick:
I would like to know the total weight on your Velomobile.


Reply author: rickmantoo
Replied on: 09/02/2013 08:34:48
Message:

45 + 50 = 95 pounds

Rick


Reply author: robisuabe
Replied on: 09/11/2013 15:39:24
Message:

Hi rick:
I'm trying to send warren an email but somehow it isn't working. He wants to know whats the surface made on my velomobile, tell him it is fiberglass. Thank you.


Reply author: robisuabe
Replied on: 09/14/2013 07:27:50
Message:

Hi Rick:
Rick would you please give me some information about the rod ends and tube size you used for the steering and where can I get them. I will appreciate your help. Thanks a lot for your replay.


Reply author: rickmantoo
Replied on: 12/01/2013 12:01:45
Message:

Rob
Sorry it has taken me so long to reply to your question about rod ends. I mainly use 1/4" and 5/16 in rod ends. I use 3/8 rod or tubing with the 1/4" rod end and 1/2" with the 5/16 ends.
I get my rod ends at McMaster Carr.

Here is a picture of the 2 different type of ends I use.


By the way your project is shaping up very nicely!

Rick


Reply author: robisuabe
Replied on: 12/09/2014 11:14:13
Message:

Halo Rick. I need some help with finding a place on the internet where I can purchase rod end for my homemade velomobile. Thanks.


Reply author: warren
Replied on: 12/09/2014 12:31:49
Message:

mcmaster carr (mcmaster.com) has a wide selection.


Reply author: robisuabe
Replied on: 12/23/2015 16:01:18
Message:

I thank you so much for your help. It took me a long time to answer you. Sorry.


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