Print Page | Close Window

Upright Bike Fairing

Printed from: www.recumbents.com
Topic URL: http://www.recumbents.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=3029
Printed on: 09/28/2021

Topic:


Topic author: Upright Mike
Subject: Upright Bike Fairing
Posted on: 01/12/2010 16:33:52
Message:

Below is my conception of a new idea for an Upright bike fairing.

Some history of upright fairings: Around 1913-1914 the first streamlined human powered vehicle race was held between two faired upright bikes. In 1914 they were banned by the UCI. Former UCI hour record holder Marcel Berthet went 49.99 km in one hour with a faired aluminum upright in the 1930's. He was 47 years old at the time. In 1974 Olympic cyclist Ron Skarin pedaled Dr Chet Kyle's streamlined upright, sewn by Joyce Kyle to a world record 43 mph. This event helped launch the first speed championships in 1975 as well as the IHPVA. Ron remarked that the streamliner swerved with heart stopping unpredictability. In the late 1970's more streamlined uprights emerged to set records. They too had problems with swerving due to their tall thin shapes with large side areas.

In the 1980's fully-faired Moultons (folding bikes with 17 inch wheels) were ridden and raced quite successfully by a team of engineers (Doug Milliken, Dave Kennedy). Jim Glover, Will Kennedy and others were the riders. In 1989, a RAAM team used the AeroEdge fairing. At this time within the HPRA racing circle, only Bryan Tucker http://www.wisil.recumbents.com/wisil/tucker-memorial.htm and myself raced uprights with fairings. With the passing of Bryan, I think I'm the only one left racing them.

I'm not going to build a SAIL like has been done in the past by enclosing the bike and rider top to bottom. I figure something up top and then Aero-Boots (please don't steal my patentable idea) around the bottom should help people to go faster on their uprights. World Record speed for an Upright fairing was set by Jim Glover at I think 52-53 mph on the Indianapolis speedway. My speed lists have him doing 51.2 mph at the 1986 speed championships in Vancouver.

In 1998, I spent about 3 months devised this fairing during a Masters-level engineering problem solving class. My classmates and I found 14 patents related to upright fairings for bicycles. Its an idea I've had languishing now for all these years.

It's not my goal to break this mark, as I know my fairing will not be as aero as some of these earlier fully faired machines. I hope I go at least a respectable 40 mph over 200 meters and maybe 30 miles in one hour. With the design I show, I hope it would be lot more controllable than the earlier fully-faired machines. Someone's got to bring some respectability back to uprights!

I welcome all comments and criticisms!
Mike Mowett



My past experiments with the spandex bag - AeroEdge fairing. This was developed in 1989 for RAAM. I narrowed it, but still only get about 1.5 mph average cruising speed increase (from say 23.5 mph to 25.0 mph) from it. It definitely needs a tail fairing section. - Here I'm doing 37 mph in a 200 meter qualifying run at Battle Mountain in 2005...


Wearing prototype Aero-Boots installed at Battle Mountain in 2005...
These were just cut up detergent and Armor All plastic bottles taped together.

Replies:


Reply author: LongJohn
Replied on: 01/13/2010 01:46:12
Message:

Mike,

I would include your head into the fairing since this would give you much better aerodynamics. If you extend the fairing down to be just a little above the tires, you increase the area covered and decrease youre leg opening. I would mount the fairing to the bike, don't undereastimate the aerodynamic forces on this fairing...

Look at the pro-top-speed-skiers for fairing your legs.

I don't think you are the only one riding with a fairing on an upright; just look at the following threat: http://www.recumbents.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2657


Thomas


Reply author: Upright Mike
Replied on: 01/15/2010 18:09:57
Message:

Perhaps it's time I get down off my high hobby horse and design a real fairing to go fast! beccause I might hurt myself with the upright fairing design! I don't see too much feedback here, so maybe yes I am still a bit crazy after all these years in this sport - and no one is nice enough to tell me to DROP THE UPRIGHT! design!

So my options are
1) to fair my Challenge lowracer
2) bug my good buddy John Morciglio to build me one of his Mach 1 lowracer and then streamline that
3) get my Norus streamliner out of storage and just ride that.


Reply author: Larry Lem
Replied on: 01/15/2010 21:51:23
Message:

I think you gotta build a simple, steel bike so you can add brackets, etc. to support and integrate the fairing. Trying to make special brackets that won't mar the finish of your Baron or potential future Mach 1 lowracer will likely lead to compromises and frustration.

Larry Lem


Reply author: Upright Mike
Replied on: 01/16/2010 05:21:30
Message:

Thanks Larry, I don't have the tools or experience to weld up my own frame at this point. John has superb composite skills. I modified the pict above a bit. He's usually reclined back even more. I hope I can talk him into doing a streamliner.


Reply author: Richard Myers
Replied on: 01/16/2010 06:04:16
Message:

While you are waiting for John to morph his design into a liner get in the Norus and get experience racing a liner! Isn't that the reason you bought the van so you could haul the Norus to the track? When you get to Fl. take a look at my Jester and you will see just how much work it takes to make a LR into a liner.

Richard


Reply author: warren
Replied on: 01/16/2010 11:10:28
Message:

Or just have John M. build a 'liner specific CF bike and a 'liner to go around it. I think he has built everything else now anyway. Oh wait, he has not built a CF chopper bike yet. Well, after he finishes the chopper, THEN he can build you a streamliner...

-Warren.


Reply author: raymondg
Replied on: 01/16/2010 12:27:57
Message:

Mike,
I agree with Richard, get in the damn Norus. It's impossible to know what you will like and dislike about a streamliner until you start to accumulate time in one. Frankly, it's a complete mystery to me why you have not ridden it yet. If you try to build one yourself, or have John build you something before ever having put the effort into the Norus, you run the danger of being the guy who is always waiting for the perfect liner to ride and ends up never riding anything.

Raymond


Reply author: alevand
Replied on: 01/17/2010 06:18:57
Message:

I think your original sock fairing is too blunt in the back and the new one should have more of a tail. It should cover over the thighs also. Vecro could be used to fasten it to the carbon frame. Is it possible to stand on climbs with the fairing on? I was wondering about the Norus also.

C:
Tony Levand


Reply author: Speedbiker
Replied on: 01/17/2010 07:55:16
Message:

Hey Tony, don't encourage him. We're
trying to get him in his sweet liner.

Mike, if you want to build something,
build a coroplast body for your LR. That
way you could practice your liner handling,
have fun going fast, and not freeze in
the chilly Michigan weather.


Reply author: Upright Mike
Replied on: 01/17/2010 08:44:22
Message:

Thanks everyone for the input and encouragement!

Yes - riding the Norus should be my number one priority for next year. It is a beautiful liner with dual pantour suspension 451 wheels, surprisingly easy to ride. I've rode it twice with the top off. I do have the following things to work on:
1) getting a buckle-less shoe so buckle don't rub inside fairing - easy to do
2) figure out a way to make a lever to actuate the cable for the landing gear up and down. The current pull ring seems to keep falling apart after a few pulls
3) possibly replace worn bearings in drive system - there is an awful lot of drag when you spin the cranks - everything comes to rest really quickly when you spin the cranks and let go - with no load on the wheel. The left-hand side chain down to the front wheel is fixed always rotating with the front wheel

It is a nice ride, I guess I feel like I don't appreciate it, because I didn't have a part in building it. I want to be like many of you - a builder and rider.


Reply author: Upright Mike
Replied on: 01/17/2010 08:55:41
Message:

My goals long ago for my upright with bodysock were:
25 mph Average for One-Hour / 40 mph Sprint

I've accomplished the 25 mph one hour long ago and topped 35 mph on the velodrome at Northbrook & 36-37 mph in Battle Mountain. On my unfaired Baron and Challenge lowracers, I've only done 24 mph for one hour and 34.5 mph at Northbrook. I'd hope with alot more training this year, I could improve a couple of mph to maybe 26 mph average and 36-37 mph sprint.

-----
With a streamliner my eventual long term goal would be to get on top my All time fastest Lists (with marks superior to any UCI mark)..
35 mph Average for One-Hour / 50 mph Sprint

Rob Wood did with the Norus...
39 mph Average for One-Hour / 58 mph Sprint



Reply author: LongJohn
Replied on: 01/17/2010 11:40:11
Message:

Mike,

I vollunteer helping you at BM when I am not riding myself.

Now get your but in gear, be thankful you can ride!

I will be in BM this year, AND riding. Let's see if I can get back in shape as soon as my ankle is better.

Thomas


Reply author: Upright Mike
Replied on: 01/17/2010 13:08:36
Message:

Thomas - You should be good to ride by Battle Mountain! I will volunteer to be YOUR pit crew man! The Norus is self-starting and I'd rather have everyone start in front of me, than behind, as I'll be slowest!

And if you or Damjan or Hans or Yannick can not beat Barbara's European record, I will tease you all week about being beat by a little (strong!) girl!

You had an amazing ride in the One Hour at Ford 74.3 km, with your ankle all taped up and injured just 2 weeks before that. One of the most impressive athletic feats of the year! That took guts. I'm sorry you never got a chance to swim in that beautiful lake out there at the Proving Grounds! You ankle should be much better by BM!


Reply author: Dana Barlow
Replied on: 01/21/2010 20:20:28
Message:

"Norus;It is a nice ride, I guess I feel like I don't appreciate it, because I didn't have a part in building it. I want to be like many of you - a builder and rider."
Fix that!this way=
Well it is a nice ride kind of,but has and dose need some real work to be what it needs to be for a fast and fun liner,that work makes it yours as the design needs refining a lot still. There are things holding it back you already stated and stuff I told ya about some time back about streeing being a tiller[bad design].
It needs a new name by you,after these big updates as well!I think.
We'll get to talk more soon

Dana
Team Strange
"Strange One","Too Strange","Strange Try"
Miami Fla.


Reply author: 25hz
Replied on: 01/26/2010 12:34:45
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by LongJohn

Mike,

I vollunteer helping you at BM when I am not riding myself.

Now get your but in gear, be thankful you can ride!

I will be in BM this year, AND riding. Let's see if I can get back in shape as soon as my ankle is better.

Thomas



Hey Thomas!

I just found a picture, and I think you're in it. I don't think the problem is your ankle after all, I think the problem is you're eating a bucket of spaghetti! Ease up on teh carbs, man, or they'll need a shoehorn to get you into the Whitehawk! ;)

http://fotos.ligfiets.net/v/wk2009/bas/bdm-20090703-0840.jpg.html


Reply author: LongJohn
Replied on: 01/27/2010 00:50:57
Message:

Hey Tim,

Brilliant picture! It has become a tradition that they photograph me with my secret wapon: carbs!
If you search for the pictures of the Worlds in Bentwaters 2008, you'll find more pictures of the secret wapon.

It might be the main reason why I did not do "so well" at Detroit.... ;-)

Talking about shoehorning myself into the SpeedHawk; I gained 10kg over the last 6 months, not riding my bike.... 8-(
I'am back on (in) the bike since this year, and struggeling to get rid of the "insulation".
Since I'am riding I feel much better (endorfin's), and the ankle is feeling a bit better every day!

I plan on being able to start doing some interval training in july. I should be able to be "lean" in september for BM!

Thomas - That's Niels sitting on the left, and my wife on the right.


Reply author: 25hz
Replied on: 01/27/2010 19:12:48
Message:

Thomas, that's awesome. I can't really carb up like that - I feel bloated. I tend to need to stick to liquids when I race - things like Boost or Ensure.

I'm glad to hear about your ankle and look forward to seeing your exploits when you're healthy. In the mean time, are you the "Thomas" that has the Baron that's been converted to dual 26" wheels? If so, how does it hand compared to stock setup?


Reply author: LongJohn
Replied on: 01/28/2010 00:46:00
Message:

Hey Tim,

Yes, I'am. It handles much better that the original stock set-up.
In stock set-up it was really nervous in taking corners, and I couldn't make high speed corners without sh%$^%&ing my pants...
Now I can make "higher speed" corners, it still does not feel "safe".

Or maybe it's just me... ;-)

However, the orginal bike is the third prototype of the first Baron's ever build, hence the angled frame, with thick tubing (very stiff though). The steering angles and offset changed with the later types.
It took me 1 hour to set the bike up with the larger front wheel (559) and the first time I rode it was in the street (5 min. OK it works), than I raced it at Sloten Velodrome and almost wet myself... Scary!
The third race was at Apeldoorn last year, well you can find the results for that...

The bike is much more comfortable, more aerodynamic (more layed back, feet higher), and definitly faster!

I would say; if you have long legs (no crank overlap), go for it!

Thomas


Reply author: 25hz
Replied on: 01/28/2010 04:28:00
Message:

Thanks, Thomas. I had read prior that yours was one of the first Barons built, but I didn't know about the frame and geometry differences. I was also told that it handled a little rough with the big front wheel, but I didn't know it was a little scary even with the original :)

I really enjoy watching the videos of you guys racing over there.


Reply author: 25hz
Replied on: 01/28/2010 09:23:23
Message:

I thought I saw a picture of hans riding the yellow Baron too in a race or two?

http://fotos.ligfiets.net/v/wk2009/bas/bdm-20090702-0075.jpg.html


Reply author: LongJohn
Replied on: 01/29/2010 00:47:00
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by 25hz

I thought I saw a picture of hans riding the yellow Baron too in a race or two?

http://fotos.ligfiets.net/v/wk2009/bas/bdm-20090702-0075.jpg.html



Tim,

That's me and Jan-Marcel van Dijken in the picture. Jan-Marcel is riding a Razz Fazz.
Another picture of our bikes:

http://fotos.ligfiets.net/v/wk2009/bas/bdm-20090702-0102.jpg.html

Hans had lend his bike to another rider to stimulate him to race. Since I wasn't racing the criterium I offered my bike to Hans:

http://fotos.ligfiets.net/v/wk2009/bas/bdm-20090703-0943.jpg.html

http://fotos.ligfiets.net/v/wk2009/bas/bdm-20090703-0862-hans_wessels.jpg.html

And another shot of my (and my wifes') secret recipe:

http://fotos.ligfiets.net/v/wk2009/bas/bdm-20090703-0843.jpg.html

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm!


Thomas


Reply author: jhkennedy4
Replied on: 05/16/2011 09:53:55
Message:

Hey Mike,

I know this thread is long dead, but I'm curious whether you ever made any progress on your upright bike fairing. A friend of mine (Mechanical Engineering student) and I (bike fanatic) are looking to develop an upright fairing of our own this summer, and we would love to hear what did and did not work for you.

Sincerely,
John Kennedy

ps you can contact me directly at jhk8459 (at) rit (dot) edu


Reply author: Upright Mike
Replied on: 05/16/2011 18:28:46
Message:

Hi John,
Welcome to the forum. Well, short answer is no, I haven't been able to make progress on these upright fairing ideas - too many other "bike" projects consuming my time. I would be happy to see someone else pick up a project like this and make it a reality. Let me know if I can help with anything.
Sincerely,
Mike


Reply author: Upright Mike
Replied on: 05/16/2011 18:36:21
Message:

This past summer, I switched my underlying frame to a more aero Aluminum Cervelo P3 instead the Cervelo Solist that I was using in the earlier pictures. This setup was fast. I was on my way to a new record of 26 mph average speed in it for one hour, when I had a chain derailment lowering my average speed.

2004 Cervelo P3 aluminum with cut-off handlebars to fit inside fairing





Reply author: Upright Dave
Replied on: 11/05/2011 22:02:52
Message:

Great Build! I have a couple questions about the body sock. Did you spray a sealer on the spandex to keep the air from blowing through it? Also, can the sock be put on by yourself or does it take 2 people? I was thinking of making one but it would have to be safe and I want to be able to see my hands and controls etc. Anyway, here is my bike as it stands right now. I'm not a power-house like you but right now this thing cruises around 21-25mph depending on wind direction and how I feel.







Reply author: Upright Mike
Replied on: 11/06/2011 05:23:21
Message:

Upright Dave!,
great build! I can put on my sock by myself. I have the sock around the front fairing first, then I step over my frame, and put the sock on over my head, like putting on a shirt. It has no sealer. I have to put it through the washing machine after a ride. because it will get "sweaty", ickk!
When I have it all zipped up, I have a hard time seeing my controls like the brake levers, shifters, but not a problem as you can feel where those are. Not seeing my speedometer is sometimes frustrating. I can see it, if I sneak a peak inside the sock. I had a zzipper in the top front of the sock. This allows me to open and close the top half. So if its open I can see inside better and get more air inside, but more drag.
Great job! welcome to the upright madness club!


Reply author: Upright Dave
Replied on: 11/07/2011 20:06:58
Message:

Thanks. To do the sock, I'd have the narrow the handlebars. The lower drops stick out. When I made the fairing (2nd one), it was to my body dimensions so I figured I would deal with the handlebars later on. I posted another thumbnail picture on page 1. I'm getting cracks forming from the holes I drilled in the petg fairing. I just found out there's special drill bits for the lexan,petg for a clean cut hole. Does anyone in here really use those drill bits? The first fairing really cracked badly. I did drill out the cracks with small holes but it didn't stop some of them.


Reply author: warren
Replied on: 11/08/2011 06:03:41
Message:

PETG degrades pretty fast in the sun. You'll need to paint it to protect it.

-Warren.


Reply author: Speedbiker
Replied on: 11/08/2011 08:18:36
Message:

My feelings a very hurt over the fact Upright Mike didnt mention me having raced a faired upright in about 1996. Cinelli frame, Edge fairing(likely rotomolded by Alan Krause), Spinergy front wheel, and Unidisk rear wheel cover. I extended the sides of the Edge with cororoplast and used mountainbike shifters on my aerobars.


Reply author: Upright Mike
Replied on: 11/08/2011 12:05:32
Message:

Speedbiker Thom, My profound apologies!
Yes, we were part of a rebellious gang of bikers back then. We were misfits in a sea of misfits. What a wonderful brotherhood the recumbent world provided for us, never mocking us, but gently reminding us that, ahem, a fully faired recumbent would have smaller frontal area hence faster. Remember Sean Costin used to race an upright too. Him and I made it to the finals of the "international championships" in the 1/4 mile drag races. His exploits are detailed here: http://www.wisil.recumbents.com/wisil/costin/seancostin.htm
And our dearly departed Byrant Tucker, aka Bad Cat - he loved cardboard and other fairing materials. He'd beat me at most races back then even when he was 60 something and I was just a young buck. http://www.wisil.recumbents.com/wisil/tucker-memorial.htm
But the guys I admired mostin racing were Dave Kennedy, his son Will, and the Jim Glover. They rode the fully faired Moultons that beat up on everybody. I couldn't catch Will when he was 12 years old (I was like 13), and Jim I think set the fastest ever upright 200-meter record of 51+ mph at the Indianapolis Motor Speedway. Also another guy on their Moulton rode 32.5 miles in one-hour at Michigan, my first big race in 1989. Lest not forget about the original upright bike rebel, Dr. Chet Kyle and US Olympian Ron Skarin, who set the first speed records in 1974. Those records started all this record keeping stuff!
Welcome to the brotherhood Dave! We're a tight group!


Reply author: Upright Mike
Replied on: 11/08/2011 12:12:13
Message:

Dave,
I had the problem of my handebar sticking out the sides of the fairing (well the bodysock). I solved it by cutting off the handlebars and riding with only the aerobars. Also, my lexan fairing started developing cracks. I resorted to putting duct tape over the holes, then remounting the fairing.


Reply author: sean costin
Replied on: 11/08/2011 19:08:24
Message:

Thom Ollinger. His use of medium blue tights was way ahead of his time.



Reply author: Upright Dave
Replied on: 11/08/2011 20:55:18
Message:

That's a really cool picture. I like the side panels with the fairing! Great links above also.

What about brake levers for cut-off or extra short handlebars? What do you use? Bar end type?


Reply author: Speedbiker
Replied on: 11/08/2011 22:53:14
Message:

Great picture. I've never seen it before. I used mtn bike brake levers mounted backwards on my aerobars. When i was on the pads I felt very aero. Kinda. Besides the blue tights, notice the aerodynamic water bottle. WAY ahead of its time. I was in the middle of ky ten year recovery from knee surgery, so I can't really say how fast that setup was. I'm about six mph faster on my lowracer, now. And infinitely for comfortable...


Reply author: Speedbiker
Replied on: 11/08/2011 22:55:39
Message:

Oh yeah, I was wearing one of those Bell Darth Vador aero helmets. I'm surprised I even had to pedal!


Reply author: Upright Mike
Replied on: 11/09/2011 06:56:40
Message:

Dave,
See my picture on Page 1, I'm using standard road brake levers mounted upside down with the levers facing forward on my aerobar extensions. Since these extensions slide off the main bar, and are 7/8" OD I was able to intall these rather easily. The setup is not the most aero when I'm unfaired, as the road brake hoods are bulky, but it works.


Reply author: Upright Dave
Replied on: 12/04/2011 21:45:41
Message:

I've decided that cycling without drop handlbars wouldn't be to my liking. Also, signaling in traffic using a body sock isn't going to happen. Anyway, I'm making a bolt-on aero seat tube fairing out of fiberglass so I don't have to buy a cervelo. Maybe I'll pick up a few grams of drag.







Reply author: AviationMetalSmith
Replied on: 12/10/2011 13:00:51
Message:



This is the NFA Vehicles Type 6. It has a Kevlar fairing, and it was built around a bike that had twenty inch wheels.

The highest speed I ever reached on this bike was 47MPH. But the gear ratio was too low, and I was never able to find a large, 72 to 76 tooth chainring, which is what it needed.

There are two aluminum tubes parallel to the top tube, held with a bunch of two-inch stainless steel hose clamps. These are the frame rails, and the front and rear fairings sit on these frame rails.

I think I'm the only participant who has built a fully faired upright bike. Hope these photos help.

I don't think I'd ever build a velomobile exactly like this again though


Here is a photo of the Type 9, which was designed by my Daughter. The wheels are now twenty-four inches, and the frame rail is a fiberglass, 4"x6" box beam, molded to follow the top tube of the Ladies Frame, so the step-through height is lower. It is now semi-recumbent, the seat being on the rear of the fiberglass box beam.


This Photo shows My Daughter and Friend riding the Type 5, which is the Type 6 w/o the roof. This bike also had it's disadvantages, and I would not do it again the same way. Using the front end of a velomobile as a partial fairing seems logical, but it is not an ideal partial fairing.


My current Vehicle, the Type Ten. I do NO welding, the support beams are formed by lashing epoxy-fiberglass to the frame. I saved about three-hundred hours of work by using a plastic case from an old iMac computer, instead of casting a fiberglass fairing.

Anyway, today is a cold day in New York. I wish I had a velomobile up and running. Good luck with your venture.


Reply author: AviationMetalSmith
Replied on: 12/10/2011 13:02:38
Message:


Reply author: AviationMetalSmith
Replied on: 12/10/2011 13:03:49
Message:



This is the Type 9, is this image posting correctly?


Reply author: purplepeopledesign
Replied on: 12/10/2011 14:26:14
Message:

Aviation: I'm going to take a chance and assume that your 47 mph was achieved on a downhill. That said, if you really want to go fast, you need to study what's been done before.... namely, the Moulton Streamliner from the mid 80's. That bike was capable of 50 mph on level ground.

:)ensen.



Those who claim to be making history are often the same ones repeating it.

Video of my trike
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MdSLRD_2vzc
Photos of my trike
http://www.flickr.com/photos/purplepeople/


Reply author: AviationMetalSmith
Replied on: 12/11/2011 09:24:33
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by purplepeopledesign

Aviation: I'm going to take a chance and assume that your 47 mph was achieved on a downhill. That said, if you really want to go fast, you need to study what's been done before.... namely, the Moulton Streamliner from the mid 80's. That bike was capable of 50 mph on level ground.

:)ensen.



Those who claim to be making history are often the same ones repeating it.

Video of my trike
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MdSLRD_2vzc
Photos of my trike
http://www.flickr.com/photos/purplepeople/



Nope. The 47MPH was on flat ground. And I had studied the Moulton streamliner. The lack of a higher speed was not due to bad aerodynamics, but to a lack of a higher gear ratio.

If I do it again, however, I would cast the shell in one piece, and make it slightly wider, for comfort. The Type 6 was only twenty inches wide, and the tail fairing and the lower part of the front fairing were only fourteen inches wide. Look at the diagram I provided, it shows a top view.

I'm fairly confident the Type 6 would have exceeded 50MPH if the gear ratio had been higher.


Reply author: Upright Dave
Replied on: 12/11/2011 17:43:52
Message:

A couple questions for Aviation:
How long ago did you ride the blue bike to 47mph?
Why is there so many wrinkles in the fairing?


Reply author: Speedbiker
Replied on: 12/11/2011 21:18:05
Message:

Hey Sean, remember that guy with the "faired" 300 speed upright at Waterford back in the mid 90s? You shoulda raced him.

Aviation metalsmith, please bring one of your faired uprights to an HPV race.


Reply author: Upright Mike
Replied on: 12/11/2011 21:38:19
Message:

Wow! I don't feel so alone anymore!

I know the Moulton was and still is a seriously fast machine. For instance Dave Kennedy's son went 47 mph on a downhill in the park where I've rode hundreds of times. I reached about 38-39 mph unfaired on an upright on the same hill. With my Challenge Fujin recumbent I reached 42 mph, and then on my new Morciglio M1 lowracer I reached a new best of 46 mph this past summer. So I still haven't overtaken the park "speed record" set by the Moulton over 15 years ago, when Will was a teenager like me.

The best top speed on my upright with bodysock was just over 37 mph (officially timed at 36+ mph) on the flat and bumpy Muleshoe qualifying road outside Battle Mountain. Pict above.


Reply author: AviationMetalSmith
Replied on: 12/12/2011 10:21:53
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by Upright Dave

A couple questions for Aviation:
How long ago did you ride the blue bike to 47mph?
Why is there so many wrinkles in the fairing?




It's been more than twenty years since I did my "personal best" of 47MPH.

The wrinkles are in the picture because I used vinyl, tinted vinyl, which was meant for covering (household) windows in the Winter, to save energy. I had planned to make new windows with Acrylic, but it would have been heavier, and I didn't have the money to spend on that much Acrylic. Also, the Fairing bulges to twenty inches around the handlebar area, the rest of the Fairing being 14 inches. And also, I didn't want to get trapped in the vehicle if it fell over, I carried a knife to get out just in case.

The left side was the side I got in and out of, the right side was taped shut. There is also a styrofoam board, with aluminum flashing around the edges, and a piece of the aluminum was fashioned into a clip that would hold the door shut at the rear edge of the front fairing.

If I do it over, I would make the whole thing 22 inches wide, cast the shell in one piece, include a semi-recumbent seat, and make the overall height six inches lower. Then I would also need a bigger chainring.

Another , earlier , Polaroid picture of the Type 6, in 1989:


The Type 5, all in camouflage , parked outside the Barracks, when I was in the Navy, in 1991:


Reply author: Victor Ragusila
Replied on: 12/12/2011 14:40:22
Message:

Hello Uprights!

I am wondering how far people have gone in studying body fairings. The main drag on the upright bike is the separation behind the rider's back, butt and legs. I know Mike had a body sock which made the airflow around his body better, but didnt prevent any separation. Adding tail section to such a fairing be possible? That would prevent the biggest separation area. Also some fairings behind the rider's thights might be possible. ASME saw a upright semi-faired bike back in the day, and it went pretty fast. http://www.rose-hulman.edu/hpv/design-reports/2009/(CSUN,%202009)HPV2009,ASME_FinalDesignReport,V4,7.pdf

Another direction is the motorcycle world. The Hayabusa was studied quite a lot for aerodynamics, and the shape surrounds the rider really well.

I am bringing up this point because I feel that a full fairing around an upright rider is very big, and maybe not as efficient as a semi-fared design that addresses the main problem, the separation behind the rider.

Victor


Reply author: Speedbiker
Replied on: 12/14/2011 08:08:41
Message:

Wasn't Terminator the fastest faired upright at the Milwaukee IHPVA championships? I have a picture here, somewhere...


Reply author: Speedy
Replied on: 12/14/2011 09:20:17
Message:

Terminator had trouble with the wind on the velodrome, got blown into the grass, stuck the front wheel and flipped gaining a mild concussion in the process.
A friend of my brother Stewart ... can't recall his name.
Last time the bike was used.

quote:
Originally posted by Speedbiker

Wasn't Terminator the fastest faired upright at the Milwaukee IHPVA championships? I have a picture here, somewhere...


Reply author: alevand
Replied on: 12/14/2011 19:07:56
Message:

I want to put a fairing on my upright bike. No, I am not going over to the dark side. It's for winter commuting were a recumbent is impractical, or unrideable in the snow and ice. The front fairing will keep the wind off my face hands and feet, the parts that get cold. I am thinking something like a windjammer. I tried a face shield one year, and it frosts up, goggles too.

C:
Tony Levand


Reply author: PUGZCAT
Replied on: 12/15/2011 07:03:37
Message:

I mounted an old school motorcycle windjammer on welded on brackets on a bmx handlebar on the first swingbike I built. It worked out quite nicely as did the swingbike. Swingbikes work great for winter riding as the back wheel is steered so you can climb out of ruts instead of going down. An added plus was in a tail wind the bike could be dogged tracked out and windjammer used as a sail. It was a self centering design. Probably still some pictures on Bob Hubbard's Swingbike site.


Reply author: alevand
Replied on: 12/15/2011 11:20:11
Message:

I would think the last thing you want is front wheel drive on ice.

C:
Tony Levand


Reply author: harv
Replied on: 12/15/2011 12:17:53
Message:

When I lived in Massachusetts (~1969) I raced in an ice gymkhana with my SAAB 96 two stroke. I only tried it once and I finished 4th behind 3 guys who drove to MA from Vermont and Maine to do their 2 laps. All the VWs sucked at ice racing. I don't understand Tony's point about front wheel drive and ice.


Reply author: mhelander
Replied on: 12/15/2011 13:41:51
Message:

The problem with front drive drive in ice is stability. If bike's 2-wheeler, and front slips, you're handful to keep your direction.

I can easily get slippage on snow with my rwd lowracer, even with threaded tires. In straights and uphills, even in 40+ kph speeds. On the other hand, it's great pedaling exorcise to get it right and smooth...

I tried last winter ride lowracer having slicks in front and rear. Rear slips all the time, and stability is easily lost cause rear slips 1st, then you correct and front slips too, game over and down you go. Or ditch. That was fixed with U.S.S.R built threaded tubular in rear, nowadays equivalent tires are available for cyclocross clincher rims.

Now I have Maxxis DTH 451 @ front and same tubular @ rear. Works well enough.

Cheers,
-Mika


Reply author: alevand
Replied on: 12/15/2011 14:28:19
Message:

Harv hasn't ridden a bike on ice before. Front wheel slips and down you go. Rear wheel slips and you do a doughnut. Best to have an upright, so you can put your leg down to make a stable tripod while skidding, not to mention splashing from passing cars.. I haven't tried studded tires. Better to have the front tire studded than the back. Ice ruts are always bad.

C:
Tony Levand


Reply author: Speedbiker
Replied on: 12/15/2011 15:33:10
Message:

Mika is the first person I have heard of who could ride a bent on snow and ice. Even ride fast. I even hit some mud and down I go. Maybe I should quit thrashing around. Or, move to where Mika lives for practice.


Reply author: mhelander
Replied on: 12/15/2011 22:47:25
Message:

Thom, I've had only one training leg this week. It was @ Monday when we had -7 centigrade and snow in ground. Nice riding weather, MUP maintenance was about adequate.

After that, again, temp's cycling above freezing. No snow in ground, just slippery ice. Hadn't had chances to ride at all. Last winter was much, much better.

But what comes to riding in slippery surfaces, it's skill that can be learned. I did my pre-learning in -90's commuting my 16 km distance using all-race Tri-DF, with aero bars slicks and all. Every fall went down couple of times to remind my reflexes what's required to ride in snow & ice.

Especially good point is that when learned it boosts confident to race in summer and all weather conditions. It's the reflexes...

Cheers,
-Mika


Reply author: harv
Replied on: 12/16/2011 03:16:38
Message:

Tony, I have ridden a bike on ice; not bent or front wheel drive, though. I wasn't always old and fat and rode pretty much all year. Rode up a sheet of ice trail to Fermi Lab. On the way back down I was passed by my buddy's bike, then my buddy, then I went down and my bike and I raced each other in an epic slidefest.


Reply author: Tom Schneider
Replied on: 12/16/2011 03:40:23
Message:

Harv quote:
When I lived in Massachusetts (~1969) I raced in an ice gymkhana with my SAAB 96 two stroke. I only tried it once and I finished 4th behind 3 guys who drove to MA from Vermont and Maine to do their 2 laps. All the VWs sucked at ice racing. I don't understand Tony's point about front wheel drive and ice.

I did a few ice gymkanas with a turbo Corvair in Minnesota. The Porsches and turbo Corvair were faster when the ice was sticky enough, over 80 mph on straights, but when conditions were worse the front wheel drives ruled. The 4 wheels were good to stay right side up. Two wheels would be tough.


Reply author: alevand
Replied on: 12/16/2011 05:47:54
Message:

The problem with riding a bent on ice is once you slip, you fall down. I am looking at a studded commuting tire for the front this season, 700x32 72 studs or 700x35 106 studs. The skinner tire will go through deep snow easier and faster on pavement, the wider one would get better traction.




C:
Tony Levand


Reply author: PUGZCAT
Replied on: 12/16/2011 17:18:59
Message:

Let me clarify, a swingbike is rear wheel drive, upright bicycle, front wheel steered and rear wheel steered with the seat mounted on the steerer tube of the rear forks with the bottom bracket attached in front of the rear wheel.


Reply author: alevand
Replied on: 12/17/2011 05:35:56
Message:

OH, I see this one has no boom boom, was confused with swing boom bike. Tell us more.


The perfect ice bike:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=goPpGMyqqu8&feature=related

C:
Tony Levand


Reply author: PUGZCAT
Replied on: 12/17/2011 07:23:17
Message:

One wheel drive granny trikes haven't got enough traction with rubber only tires to go any where on ice other than doing donuts. Two wheel drive delta trikes work well. I built an upright BMX style tadpole with 20 inch front wheels and a 16 inch back wheel with 13 inch chainstays that had good traction on ice, but it pretty much had to take corner on pavement up on two, banking like a bike, because there wasn't enough weight on the two front wheels. It was a real crowd pleaser in parades as it looked squirrelly but was really easy to ride. My brother and I built a two wheel drive upright delta trike using 26 inch wheels all around custom 1 1/2 inch square tube rear section with a jackshaft 18 inches behind the bottom bracket and two loops of chain forward to freewheels on the back wheels. It had effectively 11 inch chainstays and was a wheelie machine using a 4 inch castor on a steel suspension seat post as wheelie bar. Slowest wheel was always driven so it wanted to track straight with the front wheel up. Never tried it on ice as it was built on request for a 10 year old autistic boy down the street from brother, his mom wanted a trike that would be hard to tip. The rims could be seen flexing and the spoke nipples on the rims could be heard "pinging in protest" when my brother and I were doing tight turn tests, but wouldn't lift a back wheel.
Swingbikes were invented in Utah around 1972, Donny Osmond's little brother was the spokes kid for the company which lasted to around 1978. Swingbikes are still popular with high rise muscle bicycle collectors.


Reply author: Upright Mike
Replied on: 12/17/2011 08:54:41
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by Speedy

Terminator had trouble with the wind on the velodrome, got blown into the grass, stuck the front wheel and flipped gaining a mild concussion in the process.
A friend of my brother Stewart ... can't recall his name.
Last time the bike was used.

quote:
Originally posted by Speedbiker

Wasn't Terminator the fastest faired upright at the Milwaukee IHPVA championships? I have a picture here, somewhere...




From my Fastest Lists...http://www.wisil.recumbents.com/wisil/fastest_list.asp?Action=Update&List=Fastest&ID=597
Ron Elder went 49.88 mph on the Terminator at the 1989 IHPSC in Michigan. I managed a measly 32.5 mph on my upright with Zzipper fairing at that same championships - of course I was only a 14-year old "kid" too!
At the 1991 IHPSC in Milwaukee, I see Anthony Peder went 50.35 mph for 4th place on a fully-faired Moulton upright. I remember an accident with a full-faired upright where a guy broke his collarbone on the velodrome - Speedy, was that Ron?


Reply author: Upright Dave
Replied on: 12/17/2011 19:00:22
Message:

I'd like to see a picture of this "terminator". Not may pictures around of the upright fairing bikes that were fast.


Reply author: Speedbiker
Replied on: 12/18/2011 06:56:26
Message:

Let's remember that not only were fully faired uprights slower than faired recumbents, they weren't much more practical, and were even worse in crosswinds. And they still have the comfort, headfirst, high off the ground issues of a DF.


Reply author: Speedy
Replied on: 12/18/2011 09:37:56
Message:

correct Ron Elder
forgot about the collar bone
pretty sure it was the concussion that kicked in "mothers high anxiety rule" with his wife banning him from the bike and HPV competitions


quote:
Originally posted by Upright Mike

quote:
Originally posted by Speedy

Terminator had trouble with the wind on the velodrome, got blown into the grass, stuck the front wheel and flipped gaining a mild concussion in the process.
A friend of my brother Stewart ... can't recall his name.
Last time the bike was used.

quote:
Originally posted by Speedbiker

Wasn't Terminator the fastest faired upright at the Milwaukee IHPVA championships? I have a picture here, somewhere...




From my Fastest Lists...http://www.wisil.recumbents.com/wisil/fastest_list.asp?Action=Update&List=Fastest&ID=597
Ron Elder went 49.88 mph on the Terminator at the 1989 IHPSC in Michigan. I managed a measly 32.5 mph on my upright with Zzipper fairing at that same championships - of course I was only a 14-year old "kid" too!
At the 1991 IHPSC in Milwaukee, I see Anthony Peder went 50.35 mph for 4th place on a fully-faired Moulton upright. I remember an accident with a full-faired upright where a guy broke his collarbone on the velodrome - Speedy, was that Ron?


Reply author: Upright Dave
Replied on: 12/18/2011 22:26:38
Message:

Getting closer on my wheel/seat tube frame fairing. I didn't like the color so I stripped the paint off. I also had to add more material as I made an error. Paint next. This time black. Basically it bolts onto the brake stud and has a removable roll pin at the bottom.



Reply author: alevand
Replied on: 12/20/2011 14:55:56
Message:



C:
Tony Levand


Reply author: harv
Replied on: 12/23/2011 14:41:39
Message:

When I see the thread topic, I think about Allan Abbott and John Howard and their motorized fairings. ~120 and ~150 mph.


Reply author: Upright Dave
Replied on: 01/01/2012 16:45:11
Message:

All done. The motor needs a tune up.


Reply author: WillStewart
Replied on: 01/09/2012 11:28:35
Message:

Mike, this is quite interesting from a number of perspectives. Have you considered productizing this for commuters, especially for winter comfort? Distance can be an issue with some commuters, and reducing the energy required can add miles to a commuter's distance. I realize this is focused on racing, but a kit could come with handbars (perhaps even with brake handles as options).


Reply author: purplepeopledesign
Replied on: 01/10/2012 12:24:08
Message:

@Will: The biggest problem with winter riding will be the weather. Any handlebar mounted fairing will be a weasel to handle in a crosswind.

:)ensen.

Those who claim to be making history are often the same ones repeating it.

Video of my trike
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MdSLRD_2vzc
Photos of my trike
http://www.flickr.com/photos/purplepeople/


Reply author: WillStewart
Replied on: 01/10/2012 13:52:40
Message:

@Jensen: I've heard some bodysock users note that crosswinds can be partially negated by an amount of the wind blowing through the sock portion. The actual 'hard' portion of the fairing seems to have a low cross sectional area from the side perspective.


Reply author: Upright Dave
Replied on: 01/13/2012 15:24:02
Message:

With the body sock attached to the front fairing/handlebars, I'd like to know how much resistance there is when turning. Do you have to rotate your body too? Can you make a tight U-turn?


Reply author: Upright Mike
Replied on: 01/14/2012 06:52:12
Message:

Will - it would be nice to market an upright fairing with a bodysock, perhaps even aero-boots could be part of the kit. As far as I know, the Aero-Edge was the only body-sock upright kit marketed. Zzip designs marketed and I believe still markets the Zzipper upright fairing. Breeze-Eze and Breezecheater were also upright fairings marketed without a bodysock addition. I own a Breezecheater. I believe the AeroEdge was based off of its mold shape, but turned upside down and truncated. This was from a conversation I had long ago.

As far as turning in winds, the wind can catch the sock and cause some instability. The sock can act as a parachute. There's two ways for it to catch air. Primarily it would catch it on the side that your turning into or where the cross-wind is coming from. Say this is from the left, then the left side catches it, blowing the fabric inwards. But with the open area at the legs and the neck, the right side can also fill with air, and blow the fabric outwards like a balloon.

I added a zipper (actually my mom long ago) to the upper opening of the sock between the fairing and my head. This helped make it more controllable. There was less air scooped up. The wind noise around my ears increased. Whats disappointing is that I couldn't see my speedometer anymore.

The fabric does not tug significantly on the handlebars, but yes it does resist turning. But it acts like a steering damper which is good for me, because I have only an aerobar under my fairing. I don't have a full drop bar or anything with a wider stance to grab for better control. There is a short cut-off section of a straight-bar just under my flip-up aerobar elbow rests. I use this section to grab onto when starting out in a Kilo sprint.


Reply author: Upright Dave
Replied on: 01/29/2012 18:59:41
Message:

Here's a 20" wheel upright fairing bike. The cockpit shot is a different bike but shows the mounting.




Reply author: Upright Dave
Replied on: 01/31/2012 18:19:19
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by Upright Mike


As far as turning in winds, the wind can catch the sock and cause some instability. The sock can act as a parachute. There's two ways for it to catch air. Primarily it would catch it on the side that your turning into or where the cross-wind is coming from. Say this is from the left, then the left side catches it, blowing the fabric inwards. But with the open area at the legs and the neck, the right side can also fill with air, and blow the fabric outwards like a balloon.

I added a zipper (actually my mom long ago) to the upper opening of the sock between the fairing and my head. This helped make it more controllable. There was less air scooped up. The wind noise around my ears increased. Whats disappointing is that I couldn't see my speedometer anymore.

The fabric does not tug significantly on the handlebars, but yes it does resist turning. But it acts like a steering damper which is good for me, because I have only an aerobar under my fairing. I don't have a full drop bar or anything with a wider stance to grab for better control. There is a short cut-off section of a straight-bar just under my flip-up aerobar elbow rests. I use this section to grab onto when starting out in a Kilo sprint.



Another question! About the body sock again. So once you add the sock to the existing aerobars+fairing, you get an additional 1.5mph?

Also, say I wanted to complicate the installation of this and attach it to the edge of the fairing rather then pull it over it. Does anyone know how they attach spandex to lexan/petg like on the F40 or other spandex socked recumbents?


Reply author: Upright Mike
Replied on: 02/01/2012 06:14:10
Message:

Hi Dave, yep that's right - I got about another 1.5 mph by adding the bodysock. I've found that that front fairing by itself had really a minor impact. I did coast down tests where my following terminal speeds were like this
1) Aerobars only: top speed 21.5 mph
2) Aerobars + front fairing: top speed 21.5 mph
3) Aerobars + front fairing + bodysock: top speed 23.0 mph

This was about the same difference I felt in my cruising speeds too, about 1.5 mph increase.


Reply author: Upright Dave
Replied on: 02/03/2012 05:33:52
Message:

I've done some coast down runs. The HPV chart seems pretty close to what I've experienced. Recently, I went 34.7mph coasting down a 5% grade where the chart says 33.9mph on the drops. A faint headwind too. My bike does weigh 30lbs with everything on it so slightly more speed. On the flat, I get 31.3mph on one road, then 32.6mph on another. Depends on the undulations. I need more power! Any advice?



Reply author: Grant-53
Replied on: 03/17/2012 15:40:06
Message:

For a number of years I have been working on commuter bike fairings. One design is a front piece made from a 24" x 48" x 4mm Coroplast cut and overlapped to resemble the Vetter Windjammer. The fairing covers from knee to shoulder and attaches to the down tube with zip ties. The height can be adjusted by tightening a cord attached at the top corners and the frame. I used this for a youth technology program and a 12 yr. old could put together in a couple hours or less.
The second design is a nose cone and tail piece both secured to the frame of my Jamis Aragon with U-bolts to the head tube and seat tube. The front cone is 21" dia. and 31" long made from 1 inch hex steel mesh (chicken wire) bonded between two layers 5 mil tarp material. The rear is just a large plastic waste basket for now. The support spars are 1.5" aluminum angle. The fact that the nose is mounted to the frame and both have circular cross sections has made for very little crosswind input. If anyone is curious I have some pictures on Photobucket.


Reply author: Upright Mike
Replied on: 03/18/2012 07:34:47
Message:

Hi Grant,
Welcome to the recumbent forums. Your design sounds nice. If you want, you can post a html link to it here. I think you need 10 posts on this forum, before you can post an image link where it will display here.


Reply author: Grant-53
Replied on: 03/18/2012 15:27:53
Message:

I have used a top tube and seat post clamp from a scrap steel frame as a support for a rear tail box on a bike with an internal brake hub to relieve some of the weight on the axle.


Reply author: Grant-53
Replied on: 03/18/2012 15:41:49
Message:

Using the wire/tarp laminate has a weight advantage over rigid fiberglass with out the mess. Cut out a section of materials and apply contact adhesive to both pieces of plastic. Assemble the layers and press together with a paint roller or broom. The surface finish is not as smooth since the plastic is glued together in the spaces of the mesh. One side can be flatter if you roll it out on a hard surface.


Reply author: Grant-53
Replied on: 03/19/2012 07:46:31
Message:

OK. I think I have enough posts without being annoying. My albums are at http:/s1187.photobucket.com/albums/z385/wgconnor
Hope they are food for thought. Dave, could you give us some more detail on making your wheel covers? I would like to incorporate them in my next build.


Reply author: alevand
Replied on: 03/22/2012 09:00:24
Message:



C:
Tony Levand


Reply author: Upright Mike
Replied on: 03/22/2012 09:53:55
Message:

Here's my build process for laminated posterboard wheel disks
http://s47.photobucket.com/albums/f152/uprightmike/Wheel%20disks/

Basically I take a piece of posterboard, cut out a circle just smaller than the rim, slot it, so can assume a cone shape. Then I laminate the piece at Office Depot or FedEx Kinkos using the SOFT laminate. I trim off the laminate about a 1/2 inch beyond the cardboard. This is the piece that I can glue or tape to the rim. Its soft and flexible. The rest of the disk where the cardboard is stiffer. I can also avoide tape at the rim completely, and just carefully tape the disk to the spokes, by reaching in behind the disk. I use 1" strips of gorilla tape, not duct tape which can peel up in heat. Cut the corners to avoid it peeling up even more so. I've had the taped on disks last through two years of riding and rain. I've also had one streamliner at Battle Mountain use them up reaching 67 mph, and they didn't blow off!


Reply author: Grant-53
Replied on: 03/23/2012 15:10:24
Message:

Thanks, I'll try using my stash of materials to come up with something similar.


Reply author: Upright Dave
Replied on: 04/18/2012 20:43:17
Message:

My rear disc is just abs plastic 1/32". The front is fiberglass and took so much time to make that I don't recommend doing it unless you want to go insane. It has a gasket and seals everything air tight/noise free. I made it during winter using a plaster mold and it has yet to be proven effective. Its warmer now so I'll be able to get out early when the winds are calm and see if I can measure any time differences in my route.



Reply author: Grant-53
Replied on: 05/23/2012 20:46:19
Message:

What has intrigued me about the upright aero tuck vs a recumbent is that the unfaired versions are roughly equal in effective drag.
So a bike and shell for an upright would be lighter than a similar recumbent to produce the same gain in efficiency. It may be unlikely an upright would be competitive at Battle Mountain time trials, but in road races the upright stands a better chance. Below the knees the legs can be exposed and faired rather than extending the fairing to the ground. Most likely a faired upright is going to be used for commuting and touring provided a comfortable saddle is used. A full suspension bike may be desirable when cruising at 30 mph.


Reply author: Speedbiker
Replied on: 05/23/2012 22:33:18
Message:

Dream on, Grant...


Reply author: Grant-53
Replied on: 06/14/2012 21:12:20
Message:

I am past dreaming and ran the numbers. Construction is underway for a 30 mph street bike. A racer would want to go 45 to 50 mph.


Reply author: Upright Dave
Replied on: 07/18/2012 14:40:52
Message:

Ok, that was 1 month ago, you done yet Grant?
I'm going to keep working on my engine and eating "power foods". I'm getting faster. No reason to build a practical streamliner yet. I'll save my money.


Reply author: Larry Lem
Replied on: 07/18/2012 15:00:30
Message:

"What has intrigued me about the upright aero tuck vs a recumbent is that the unfaired versions are roughly equal in effective drag."

I think Unfaired recumbents can have less effective drag than an aerotuck upright.

So a bike and shell for an upright would be lighter than a similar recumbent to produce the same gain in efficiency.

Same gain in efficiency....How do you draw that conclusion? Missing a premise or two.

Larry Lem


Reply author: Grant-53
Replied on: 07/23/2012 22:07:09
Message:

The front touring fairing is on my Jamis Aragon and I went from 11 mph to 14 mph at casual cruise output. Remember I am 58 years old and weigh 250 lbs. I am a commuter not a racer. My premise is based on the data found in the article "The Aerodynamics of Human-powered Land Vehicles" by Gross, Kyle, and Malewicki. The powered required for 20 mph on level ground is nearly identical for the racing crouch bike with aero components (73% of baseline - standard touring bike) and the Easy Rider (75%). Add a tail such as The Rocket by Oscar Egg to Mike's 2010 design and you have a light weight shell mounted to the head tube with an aspect ratio 1:4. At higher speeds the recumbent has an advantage of a better aspect ratio especially if the rider's back is close to horizontal. Still, to get the coefficient of drag reduced by 50% will require more material for the recumbent shell. Dave, the cost of materials for the touring fairing is under $10 USD, not bad for a 27% increase in speed first time out. No problems with side winds since it mounts to the down tube. Pictures and more data to come.


Reply author: Speedbiker
Replied on: 07/23/2012 23:01:37
Message:

Good thing you used the latest data. Better off talking to Mr Mowett about the virtues of "modern" recumbent design as compared to upwrongs(faired or otherwise). He has more practicle experience with a highly evolved, very modern, semi faired df than most anybody. So, what is he riding now that is much faster and infinitely more comfortable?


Reply author: warren
Replied on: 07/24/2012 05:52:58
Message:

I think what Thom is trying to say is that the Easy Racer is not very aerodynamic in comparison to modern racing recumbent bikes.

It probably does compare well to modern "comfort" recumbent bikes.

-Warren.


Reply author: Upright Mike
Replied on: 07/24/2012 13:28:58
Message:

Keep up the good work guys! Yes, I am a bent-head now (because I've finally exceeded my best speeds on a upright with bodysock fairing, actually by alot!), but I still catch myself looking at my upright thinking about making it faster. I am enjoying your progress and ideas. Speedbiker is a good friend of mine, and I hope you know we're just having fun (and not being mean to you!) and poking fun at the 130 year old and slow upright bike!! We wish the UCI hadn't outlawed 'bents back in 1934, else we might have been riding them today! It took me awhile to make the switch (actually after about 20 years in this club), but it was worth it!

By the way, in the Battle Mountain thread I just learned today that Jim Glover, the fastest upright bike fairing guy of all time with a full-faired Moulton, will be coming to Battle Mountain this year, presumably to spectate or volunteer? I'm not sure if he's dusting off his old bike yet, but if he is, it would be very very interesting to see how fast he could go on the course. He went 51 mph back in 1986 on a sea-level course.


Reply author: Grant-53
Replied on: 07/24/2012 14:32:07
Message:

Just so you all know, I live 65 miles from the Bicycle Man, Pete Stull, who produces the Linear LWB recumbent. We have been friends for years and I have ridden the Linear. It has a high enough seat, 20 inches, so the rider can be at the same eye level as a passenger car driver. Trikes and other 'butt scrapers' can be fun just not in traffic. The secret to comfort on a bike is proper adjustment and component selection. The Jamis seat is very well designed for comfort. Fifty years of riding didn't prevent me from siring five amazing children;). The best I would expect from a competition upright at Battle Mountain would be 60 mph and 45 mph in a tight road course or drag race. With ten years experience in customer service selling auto parts I have a thick skin and a quick wit. Don't harass the parts man until after he totals your bill-he can always add another 10% for abuse! My favorite is the line by the comedian Sinbad, "Does your mother even LIKE you?"


Reply author: mhelander
Replied on: 07/25/2012 13:15:53
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by Upright Dave

My rear disc is just abs plastic 1/32". The front is fiberglass and took so much time to make that I don't recommend doing it unless you want to go insane. It has a gasket and seals everything air tight/noise free. I made it during winter using a plaster mold and it has yet to be proven effective. Its warmer now so I'll be able to get out early when the winds are calm and see if I can measure any time differences in my route.



I've tried little different approach. Used Chinese full-carbon 60mm deep rim (complete wheel) as male mold to make two half. Used kitchen wrap plastic to protect rim & spokes and mattress foam to compress fiberglass over inner edge between spokes.

Some bulges and not so good inner edge. Then disassembled Roval 18sp radial front wheel, taped two half to rim and started gluing together from inner edge. When partially joined then used 2" fiberglass strip to seal inner joint.

Next to cut out bulges, patch with fiberglass and apply second layer on top. If surface is roughly ok, gluing fairing to rim.

Then likely some polyester putty for smooth surface and black paint.

As said, overly too laborious to make. Would be much, much easier over non-built deep rim. Luckily I'm not going to build another.

Now I have combination wheels with 60mm rims both front & back, and converted Hope Pro III & Arc en Ciel wheel permanently to disc wheel with spandex & epoxy & fiberglass. And lowracer's front 451 spoked wheel has full fairings too, removable as used elastic acrylic glue to bond those to rim.

Cheers,
-Mika

MetaPhysic 700c @ 2011, M5 CrMo Lowracer @ 2010


Reply author: Grant-53
Replied on: 07/26/2012 11:50:29
Message:

Has anyone built a competition recumbent with the rider facing the rear looking at three wide mirrors? Might be something for a different thread. The advantages would be weight more forward for aero stable shell and shorter drivetrain. The under seat steering would be linked to the opposite side of the fork.
Thanks for the input on aero wheels. Everyone can benefit from this part of the discussion.


Reply author: Garrie L Hill
Replied on: 07/26/2012 12:09:46
Message:

Yup. Damjan the Mad Slovenian!

Garrie "carbon based lifeform" Hill
HPRA Co-Dictator of the East
for pics of some of my time and money sucking projects
http://garriehill.winkflash.com/
and
http://s58.photobucket.com/albums/g277/cfbb/
and videos
http://vimeo.com/5513519



Reply author: Speedbiker
Replied on: 07/26/2012 13:43:47
Message:

Yeah, but only went about 57 miles in one hour.


Reply author: Upright Mike
Replied on: 07/27/2012 07:13:23
Message:

Damjan's Eivie I and II uses a rearview mirror stuck above his nose to see forward. He lies on his back looking up into it, with his head pointed forward. The steering was by criss-crossed steel cables passing by his neck. When he turned right (left) looking into the mirror, the bike turned right, etc. Its probably the smallest darned speedbike on the planet with a cross-section only 14.4 inches wide, and he is mighty fast, and a genius! He took the European top speed record from about 68 mph to 75 mph, then recently went over 77 mph at BM for unofficially the 4th fastest in the world.

After setting a world One-Hour record with his bike (then beaten by Sam), he still held the #2, #3, #4 fastest one-hour marks. Then he built a new and bigger bike for Francesco Russo (who is much bigger/taller than Damjan) with the same layout as before. However the steering was improved with a safer linkage system. Also the drivetrain and rear hub was made concentric so the cranks still on the same axel as the rear wheel. The rear wheel also sticks out of the shell a bit, but is still faired in. The result, another World One Hour Record of nearly 57 mph in one-hour last year.
http://www.russo-speedbike.com/

This layout with headfirst results in a very small nose. Your rotating feet and legs sweep out a larger area than this, and this zone is moved to the rear of the bike.

I have a spare one of his front forks with suspension in my basement if you want to try it! This was a "gift" he couldn't get back into his luggage case. He set a World One-Hour record on it.


Reply author: Grant-53
Replied on: 07/29/2012 21:25:59
Message:

Thanks, must be my medication is still working and I'm not so crazy. Back to the upright fairing now that the tornado went through Elmira, NY where I live. Power was out for two days and lots of tree branches in the streets. Clean up the front piece and start work on the rear box for the touring version. Gathering parts for a cheap full aero position bike.


Reply author: Upright Dave
Replied on: 08/26/2012 14:51:17
Message:

An update. Everything is working just fine on my bike. No noises coming from the wheel fairings. Cracks aren't spreading much anymore in the petg fairing since I drilled them out twice. I do avoid rough roads though. I'm still working on the engine and today I finally got to 24.13 avg speed for 12 miles. (self timing, up and back 6 mile runs) Not bad for a 70's raleigh and no cycling shoes.(straps) My shoes are modded though inside with extra material to take out any "play." Its a sleeper!
-------------------------------
Edit: now 24.40 mph.


Reply author: AviationMetalSmith
Replied on: 09/06/2012 09:55:15
Message:



Hello, Today is a Lucky Day. just an hour ago, I saw a truck load of Foam Boards, Insulation,
and I had my camera with me,
.... this is the stuff That works good as a foam core for Epoxy/Fiberglass.

I want to be sure people see this. It is the GREEN board, although other brands may be Pink or Blue.

I want to be sure, YOU want to be sure, on account the dreaded white **** boards can NOT be sanded.


Reply author: Upright Dave
Replied on: 09/06/2012 11:49:41
Message:

I used the crappy white foam for my frame fairing. The other colors are impossible to find. I sanded it very carefully so it didn't come apart. I also used the cheap crappy polyester resin and fiberglass. I taped the foam with packing tape so it wouldn't melt. Low budget operation.


Reply author: AviationMetalSmith
Replied on: 09/07/2012 09:59:32
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by Upright Dave

I used the crappy white foam for my frame fairing. The other colors are impossible to find. I sanded it very carefully so it didn't come apart. I also used the cheap crappy polyester resin and fiberglass. I taped the foam with packing tape so it wouldn't melt. Low budget operation.



I wouldn't say "Impossible to find" , that's why I just gave you the photo. You just have to find a Fully Stocked Lumberyard.. I think Home Depot sells the PINK Owens Corning Boards.

Looks like that truck has enough Boards, that cut, stacked and sanded, you could make TWO Full Fairings.

You don't say where you live, but this Building (in the background) is in Sea Cliff, Long Island. So we have the right styrofoam on Long Island.

Try looking harder.


Reply author: Upright Dave
Replied on: 09/09/2012 15:17:43
Message:

Already looked long time ago. The big box stores like Home Depot or Lowes don't have the good stuff.
They only stock cheap white foam insulation boards with foil backing.
I peel the foil off and throw it away. No projects in the near future so I won't be looking anymore.


Reply author: Jeff Wills
Replied on: 09/09/2012 20:04:07
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by Upright Dave

Already looked long time ago. The big box stores like Home Depot or Lowes don't have the good stuff.
They only stock cheap white foam insulation boards with foil backing.
I peel the foil off and throw it away. No projects in the near future so I won't be looking anymore.



Funny- I was able to get 2" thick sheets of pink foam at the local Home Depot. I wonder if it's a regional thing.

Omnibus question: if you have to glue together several sheets, what kind of glue do you use? Elmers? Contact cement? Gorilla Glue?

__________________
Jeff Wills
All my bikes:
http://home.comcast.net/~jeff_wills/Gallery/index.html


Reply author: warren
Replied on: 09/10/2012 05:48:53
Message:

I think the 3M super 88 spray cement is designed for foam boards.


Reply author: Jeff Wills
Replied on: 09/10/2012 08:52:32
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by warren

I think the 3M super 88 spray cement is designed for foam boards.



Does that mean the Super 77 cement is 11 less?
http://solutions.3m.com/wps/portal/3M/en_US/3M-Super-77/Super77/
Wait until Nigel Tufnel hears about this.

__________________
Jeff Wills
All my bikes:
http://home.comcast.net/~jeff_wills/Gallery/index.html


Reply author: rickmantoo
Replied on: 09/10/2012 16:52:37
Message:

Actually it is 3M 78
It does not eat or melt the foam like the the 77 does if sprayed on too heavy.


Rick


Reply author: Jeff Wills
Replied on: 09/11/2012 15:46:08
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by rickmantoo

Actually it is 3M 78
It does not eat or melt the foam like the the 77 does if sprayed on too heavy.

Rick



OK, good to know. I have some of the Super 77 stuff- I'll just go light.



__________________
Jeff Wills
All my bikes:
http://home.comcast.net/~jeff_wills/Gallery/index.html


Reply author: Upright Dave
Replied on: 10/16/2012 11:03:41
Message:

Well my 2nd fairing broke and I've taken it off. I'm not making another one. Just bad design and PETG sucks for impact resistance. Now to see if it really did any good..... Weather looks good for the next week. Lost 2.5 lbs!


Reply author: Grant-53
Replied on: 10/17/2012 14:11:20
Message:

Glad your fitness level and weight are improving! I had similar troubles with a homemade version of the Zzipper cracking near the supports. In contrast, the coroplast commuter fairing mounted to the down tube has performed superbly with no signs of wear.


Reply author: Upright Dave
Replied on: 10/17/2012 16:18:39
Message:

The problem with mine was flexing. My newly replaced top support was stiffer then the side supports. So when I hit a minor lip/ledge at speed, there was too much force on the top part of the fairing and the top exploded. I did do a small run today without the fairing. Nothing conclusive right now but you know the old saying about "its good in the winter....."
More runs to come.

If I ever try the fairing/bodysock it will probably look something like this. This one is more streetable and wouldn't impair body movement. Probably use velcro on the fairing. Maybe raise the spandex a little higher to the centerline of the guys shoulder/body.



Reply author: Upright Dave
Replied on: 10/25/2012 21:43:00
Message:

New brackets.



With multiple runs without the fairing I'm at least a minumum of .5mph slower. So I'm pretty convinced it works.


Reply author: Human
Replied on: 10/26/2012 14:31:03
Message:

Does anyone here know about a formerly commercially available diamond frame fairing called "Breeze Cheater"?
It was at one time commercially available and I had one but it was abducted.
It looked somewhat like the picture alevand's posted the "Areo Tech".

http://www.recumbents.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=3029&whichpage=3
Posted - 12/20/2011 : 14:55:56 < near bottom of page

When it was for sale so was the AreoEdge but I am unable to find any information on availability for the "Breeze Cheater".

When I had one it did a great job of helping to keep me dryer and might have helped a little with speed.> I never was fast enough for fairings to make a real difference. That difference starts around 12-15 miles an hour so at 12mph you might add 1/2mph and at 15 maybe 1mph

A diamond frame bike has a little advantage when riding in winter weather because of better ability to balance and push side to side IMHO. There are also more winter tires or products made for the conventional bike over a recumbent and the 20" wheels.

Thank you all in advance for any information


Reply author: Grant-53
Replied on: 10/27/2012 09:33:01
Message:

I have been scouring the web for any images of fairings for upright bikes and have not come across that name. I just ran my commuter fairing in the rain for the first this week and it kept me quite dry in a steady rain on a 25 minute ride. As I reported the improvement in speed is 4 mph going from 10 mph to 14 mph and no cross wind troubles.


Reply author: Grant-53
Replied on: 10/27/2012 10:17:50
Message:

http://i1187.photobucket.com/albums/z385/wgconnor/P6290050.jpg This is a photo of my commuter fairing


Reply author: Upright Mike
Replied on: 10/28/2012 07:15:27
Message:

I have information and/or have owned all those fairings. It will take me a while to dig it up.

I've own and still own the Zzipper and BreezeCheater and AeroEdge. I believe the story goes the BreezeCheater was turned upside down and the AeroEdge mold taken off that. I got this information many years ago from talking directly with Brian Spence who created the AeroEdge. The Breezecheater is currently at my friends house, so I couldn't get a picture of it now, plus I'm heading out for a ride. Earlier this year in the basement of the Bicycle Museum of America in Ohio, my friend and I saw the 4th commercially available upright bike fairing, the Breeze-Eaze, I think it was called. This was made I think in Grand Rapids Michigan.



Reply author: Upright Dave
Replied on: 10/29/2012 20:34:01
Message:

New Fairing! The last petg fairing I will ever make. It's my best looking one so far.


Reply author: warren
Replied on: 10/30/2012 09:18:45
Message:

Nice!


Reply author: Upright Dave
Replied on: 11/01/2012 19:31:04
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by Grant-53

http://i1187.photobucket.com/albums/z385/wgconnor/P6290050.jpg This is a photo of my commuter fairing



That has a nice shape to it. Less time consuming to make also.


Reply author: Upright Dave
Replied on: 11/01/2012 19:39:21
Message:

My first run with fairing #3 was pretty good at 24.9mph. Need a couple more runs though in case it was a fluke.
Best run without the fairing was 23.9mph.
Best run with fairing #2 before it broke was 24.4mph.
I will be doing the body sock but it might be awhile.


Reply author: Upright Dave
Replied on: 11/10/2012 15:16:29
Message:

Success! Well almost anyway. It feels pretty fast!

I used upholstery thread, needle and plyers to help pull the needle through the industrial strength velcro. Got the football heavy weight spandex on ebay for $5 a yard+ shipping. Velcro was $8 for 5'x2". I cut it in half to make it 1".

Just one issue with the spandex lifting off the back seat. Need some velcro back there to keep it in place. It seems there's two ways to do this. You can either sit on the bodysock or wrap it under the seat. From Upright Mikes's 200m video it looks like he has wrapped it under the seat.





Reply author: warren
Replied on: 11/10/2012 20:27:07
Message:

Looks good, Dave. You could fill in a fit more with the Lycra on the bottom side of the bubble for some more speed.


Reply author: Upright Dave
Replied on: 11/10/2012 22:28:02
Message:

Thanks. I can't go lower with the spandex unless I change the handlebars. Maybe the bottom middle. I wanted to retain the drops for the added control of the bike in traffic. The fairing is the same frontal area as me so the drops stick out. I pondered going to a bullhorn bar but decided not to. Probably won't be able to hand signal. So oh well. I can get to all 3 positions on the bike with no problem with the semi open back.


Reply author: Upright Dave
Replied on: 11/15/2012 12:00:10
Message:

Good news! The body sock works! Did my run again and got a whopping 25.5mph avg! Up .67mph from just the fairing. Every little bit helps. Stability seem to be ok with 2 foot margins at times. Turns a lot of heads too.


Reply author: PUGZCAT
Replied on: 11/16/2012 16:26:10
Message:

Switching the handlebars to narrow mustache style flipped upside down should tuck things up inside the fairing and you will be able to use the drop bar levers on the bends and shorten up the cable housings a little.


Reply author: Human
Replied on: 11/27/2012 01:13:22
Message:

I do not understand why covering the handles behind the lycra is an issue?
How does the lycra interfere with the steering if the handlebar is behind the fairing that is holding the lycra.


Have you given any thought to a "tail fairing"


Reply author: Upright Dave
Replied on: 11/27/2012 18:33:32
Message:

I could extend the sock lower and cut slits for the drop levers. No problem there. Then cut access slits for my hands to go through it and grab the drops. How much more speed will I get? Probably not much. I was thinking of making an adjustable tensioner in the back since I can already tell its stretching a bit. Since there's no hems on the spandex bottom, the edge does flutter some when I'm on the aerobar. It doesn't move much if I'm on the drops since my arms are touching it. I don't have a sewing machine yet. I thought about the tail fairing and did a mock up with the paint program and it looks pretty ugly. The steering tension was a little weird at first but I'm ok with it now. This was just a quick sock to see if it worked. I may try to improve it later.


Reply author: Upright Mike
Replied on: 11/28/2012 18:08:14
Message:

Upright Dave! It's exciting seeing the progress of your fairing! Finally - a brother of mine after all these years! Yep, I do tuck the back of my fairing underseat to keep it from riding up. Also I had slots cut in my spandex in order to let my hands out to grab the drops. There was of course some aerodynamic penaltly, but not alot to notice. I did over 39 miles at an avg of 23.4 mph with this setup on the Waterford track in 2006. I've also bought a bull-horn handlebar but never got around to trying it. I also bought the narrowest drop handlebar you can buy - I think it was a 38 cm wide bar. I also got a pursuit bar (moustache bar) None of these three bars made it onto a bike setup. My faster configuration was the bike I rode below - (best of 25.4 mph average over a hilly loop course)

As you might now, I took the risky route and just cut off both sides of my drop bar, leaving the section in the middle that my aerobar was mounted too. Then I took out my frame that was spreading my fairing apart. Getting rid of these two things allowed me to squish my fairing about 4 to 5 inches narrower. Riding with just the aerobars might seem risky, and admittently I didn't ride it much on the street, only on the track and in races. I have a Profile bolt-on aerobar with flip-up armrests. Underneath the armrests is the cut-off portion of the main bar, only about 8 inches wide total. this gives me something to grab onto when I want to get a bit more upright, but I had no brakes or shifters mounted there. They were on the ends of the aerobars. In races like the kilometer sprint or 1/4 mile dash (best of 30.9 seconds, nearly a 30 mph average from a standing start), I would start out by gripping the straight bar, accelerate, then drop onto the aerobars and start shifting.


Reply author: Upright Mike
Replied on: 11/28/2012 18:19:33
Message:

Some picts of me racing at Waterford in 2006 - I had my fairing on my slower Trek upright bike, not my Cervelo. My Trek upright has a front Rockshock that I added to it. Also it has an old Profile one-piece aerobar/cowhorn bar.
http://www.wisil.recumbents.com/wisil/racing2006/waterford/waterford2006.htm

World-famous low-racer Sean Costin was much faster than me that day.


Front view - my bars stick out alot.


Reply author: Upright Dave
Replied on: 11/29/2012 08:37:16
Message:

Nice pics! I knew they were hiding in here somewhere. The only bullhorn bar that would work for my bike without changing everything would be a nitto b264. Kind of pricey for such a small handlebar.


Reply author: Grant-53
Replied on: 11/29/2012 17:40:25
Message:

It looks like you could mount the ZZipper to a piece of angle aluminum clamped to the head tube. This would let you extend the Lycra or coroplast lower to just below the knees. A seat post rack could be the support for a tail piece ala the Oscar Egg Rocket.


Reply author: Upright Dave
Replied on: 11/29/2012 18:00:40
Message:

The seat post clamp would work for the tail fairing, then maybe some steel rod attachments going to the rear stays. Problem is getting your leg over the whole thing. So maybe if it pivots down while you mount the bike, then pivots back up.

With the Moulton, it has a low step height so no problem getting on the bike. With the smaller wheels, overall length is shortened. Still just as upright as a regular upright though.



Reply author: Grant-53
Replied on: 12/22/2012 08:51:18
Message:

I am also finding that having a tail box on a standard diamond frame makes for a hassle throwing my leg over the seat or top bar. I bought some hinges to make the rear section tip back some day. The pivot point would be near the back of the rear tire. Some kind of lock or latch would be useful to hold it in both positions. Thanks for the pictures.


Reply author: msol
Replied on: 01/05/2013 14:36:07
Message:

http://www.zzipper.com/documents/HPV_Paper.pdf

features a drawing of ihpva founder Chester Kyle upright streamliner;
are there pics of this bicycle?


Reply author: Upright Dave
Replied on: 02/13/2013 18:34:52
Message:

Update: Everything is working fine. Performance is down though coming out of winter. I won't be getting different handlebars. Its too dangerous in crosswinds. Much safer with the drops in 2 foot margins if the winds are up. I can signal to turn too. I just reach my hand out the bottom of the sock while on the drops.


Reply author: AviationMetalSmith
Replied on: 02/14/2013 10:00:13
Message:

The wind is worst when you are near the water. Coroplast can catch the wind. Two weeks ago I was riding along the Glen Cove Waterfront Bikeway, and I encountered wind with gusts as high as 50MPH. It took great effort to move at 3MPH. Direct headwinds weren't that bad, but the crosswinds made me stop near a lamp-post , so I'd have something to hold onto, LOL.


I was on the paved path, not the floating dock. The bike would've ended up in the water; this photo was taken on a different day.

The design is meant to combine a Fairing with a Handlebar Basket.

Here is one more photo:


This shows the "Type Eleven" after a midnight ride, when I picked up a piece of furniture someone left out-at-the-curb. The Fairing and Panniers were wrapped in gift-wrap.

I would like to re-do the whole setup in Carbon Fiber, instead of Coroplast. But this is it, for now.


Reply author: Grant-53
Replied on: 02/27/2013 16:51:16
Message:

I appreciate what you have done so far. Using the basket as a frame for the fairing is logical. It is the fact that the basket is attached to the fork and handlebars that gives wind load input to the steering. The fairing needs to be mounted to the frame. If the fairing is large enough the basket can turn inside the fairing. Another option is to use low rider front panniers and blend the fairing with them.
Once I get my fairing smooth and stiffened I will look at a unified paint scheme.


Reply author: Upright Dave
Replied on: 03/02/2013 15:11:08
Message:

I have short video of me warming up. Now I know why everyone is laughing or has big smiles when I go by.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xDuj2q6zVM8&feature=youtu.be



Reply author: Speedbiker
Replied on: 03/02/2013 16:29:10
Message:

Looks just like what you used to be able to buy.


Reply author: Upright Dave
Replied on: 07/09/2013 10:58:58
Message:

Update. I've taken the sock off and removed the velcro. I am unable to get
the TT time I got before winter after 40+ runs. So I'm assuming I hit a freak tailwind
both directions. I usually go out early when winds are like only 2mph. At least people won't
laugh at me now.


Reply author: AviationMetalSmith
Replied on: 08/31/2013 12:30:15
Message:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oj4YhmaEWac

Converted the Type Eleven from Handlebar mount to Head-Tube mount. My Fairings are interchangeable. The Type 11 is now a true Utility Bike , and can carry any box or crate weighing up to 70 pounds. The loading Platform is like a Hand Truck or a mini-Forklift. The only complicated part is the electrical connection for the Headlights and Markers.


Reply author: Speedbiker
Replied on: 08/31/2013 13:21:56
Message:

Wow.


Reply author: AviationMetalSmith
Replied on: 09/01/2013 09:32:04
Message:

[url=http://www.flickr.com/photos/11629987@N02/9647364262/][/url]
[url=http://www.flickr.com/photos/11629987@N02/9647364262/]DSCF0952[/url] by [url=http://www.flickr.com/people/11629987@N02/]AviationMetalSmith[/url], on Flickr


Reply author: AviationMetalSmith
Replied on: 09/01/2013 09:40:01
Message:

[url=http://www.flickr.com/photos/11629987@N02/9644131543/][/url]
[url=http://www.flickr.com/photos/11629987@N02/9644131543/]DSCF0948[/url] by [url=http://www.flickr.com/people/11629987@N02/]AviationMetalSmith[/url], on Flickr

[url=http://www.flickr.com/photos/11629987@N02/9647367114/][/url]
[url=http://www.flickr.com/photos/11629987@N02/9647367114/]DSCF0949[/url] by [url=http://www.flickr.com/people/11629987@N02/]AviationMetalSmith[/url], on Flickr

[url=http://www.flickr.com/photos/11629987@N02/9644125429/][/url]
[url=http://www.flickr.com/photos/11629987@N02/9644125429/]DSCF0955[/url] by [url=http://www.flickr.com/people/11629987@N02/]AviationMetalSmith[/url], on Flickr

The bike performed nominally on it's test ride. Now I can drop any of a number of Fairings on the Loading Platform. The overall length of the Vehicle has been increased, which is a problem getting it in and out of Elevators.
I will have to make a new Fairing , or modify the existing one. There is plenty of Coroplast on-hand, so a new one would not be a problem.


Reply author: Speedbiker
Replied on: 09/01/2013 14:44:35
Message:

I took aircraft mechanics in trade school(as did my son), I have worked in several aerospace machine shops(my real trade), I have worked on a couple kitplane builds, and recently took Ron Fournier's class on metal forming and English Wheel. I just wondered where you derived your moniker "Aviationmetalsmith"?


Reply author: PUGZCAT
Replied on: 09/02/2013 11:19:42
Message:

I want to know the answer to this question as well.


Reply author: AviationMetalSmith
Replied on: 09/04/2013 08:47:59
Message:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IDtYF94Jb_g

Walk around tour video.

[url=http://www.flickr.com/photos/11629987@N02/9666784476/][/url]
[url=http://www.flickr.com/photos/11629987@N02/9666784476/]IMG_0919[/url] by [url=http://www.flickr.com/people/11629987@N02/]AviationMetalSmith[/url], on Flickr

[url=http://www.flickr.com/photos/11629987@N02/9663554557/][/url]
[url=http://www.flickr.com/photos/11629987@N02/9663554557/]IMG_0918[/url] by [url=http://www.flickr.com/people/11629987@N02/]AviationMetalSmith[/url], on Flickr

[url=http://www.flickr.com/photos/11629987@N02/9663555303/][/url]
[url=http://www.flickr.com/photos/11629987@N02/9663555303/]IMG_0917[/url] by [url=http://www.flickr.com/people/11629987@N02/]AviationMetalSmith[/url], on Flickr

[url=http://www.flickr.com/photos/11629987@N02/1154346852/][/url]
[url=http://www.flickr.com/photos/11629987@N02/1154346852/]Aviation Metal Smith[/url] by [url=http://www.flickr.com/people/11629987@N02/]AviationMetalSmith[/url], on Flickr

"AMS" stands for Aircraft Mechanical Structures, but everyone calls it Aviation Metal Smith. I earned my Airframers License in the United States Navy. Here's a photo of me standing beside an F14 Tomcat, armed with AIM7 Sidewinder Missiles.


Reply author: PUGZCAT
Replied on: 09/04/2013 14:01:10
Message:

I'm really digging the crafty style. The video helped me wrap my head around it, I get it. Go down to your city's road side work shop and score some 3M prism tape scraps and pimp it out with UV proof, retro reflexive goodness. The two bike co-ops in Ottawa pickup 3M sign scraps once in a while, I've 3M-ed a few bikes.


Reply author: Speedbiker
Replied on: 09/04/2013 14:12:14
Message:

I just wondered because A&P mechanics are some of the most highly regarded metal crafters. Yet your creations use a very wide range of materials, few of which seem to relate to aviation metal work.


Reply author: AviationMetalSmith
Replied on: 09/05/2013 11:19:16
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by PUGZCAT

I'm really digging the crafty style. The video helped me wrap my head around it, I get it. Go down to your city's road side work shop and score some 3M prism tape scraps and pimp it out with UV proof, retro reflexive goodness. The two bike co-ops in Ottawa pickup 3M sign scraps once in a while, I've 3M-ed a few bikes.



Yes, well, I've two things to say. One, the reflective tape costs a lot more than the coroplast. Two, I have a friend who once worked in the county sign shop, and we talked about getting some reflective scraps, but it never happened .
+ Three: I am wary of using anything that may be construed as "Government Property", because then , due to a technicality, the Government would own my bike.


Reply author: AviationMetalSmith
Replied on: 09/05/2013 11:31:20
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by Speedbiker

I just wondered because A&P mechanics are some of the most highly regarded metal crafters. Yet your creations use a very wide range of materials, few of which seem to relate to aviation metal work.



The fact is, in the Navy's scheme of things, Fiberglass is classified as a form of "Aviation Sheet Metal" . This may be due to the fact that an Aircraft Carrier has three hangar bays, 106+ Aircraft, and may be a thousand or more miles from land, or anyplace that might have a supply of sheet metal. Each Carrier actually has a Composites Laboratory, and is stocked with vacuum bagging supplies, Epoxy , and a roll of Carbon Fiber, which is at least six feet wide and two feet in diameter. I was told that the roll of Carbon Fiber cost the Government $600,000.00. (six hundred thousand dollars).

But Fiberglass still costs money, and there is a great cost savings by using coroplast. No, I wouldn't trust an Aircraft made of coroplast. But I have heard of Corrugated Titanium, which is similar to coroplast dimensionally. Waiting to get my hands on some...


Reply author: Upright Dave
Replied on: 06/24/2014 09:15:16
Message:

Working on my bike again. Did the sock over as best I could with a brace in the back. No speed difference. It doesn't work. Hard to believe.


Reply author: Upright Dave
Replied on: 06/27/2014 19:36:20
Message:

Ok, still working on it. Trying to plug up the holes top and bottom. Added material and sewed up the top behind the back. Working on a foam plug to stick underneath in the tail. Trying to get rid of any parachute effect. Might need a zipper or two.


Reply author: Upright Mike
Replied on: 06/27/2014 21:20:57
Message:

Excellent work Dave! Keep up the experiments. Its magic when you start to notice those gains!
Sincerely
your fellow upright bike fairing knucklehead!


Reply author: Upright Mike
Replied on: 06/27/2014 21:23:07
Message:

ps: I did the same thing - having my handlebars and brake levers sticking out through the spandex. Its an unnecessary evil if you want to keep the fairing smaller


Reply author: Grant-53
Replied on: 06/28/2014 10:04:16
Message:

After a tough winter all around I'm back to the fairing projects too. The website www.vintagesailplaner.com/Sheet1bis-9.pdf gave plans that seem to be adaptable to a triathlon bike. The length is shortened to the No. 6 bulkhead. The profile covers from the shoulder to just below the knee. My running gear mule is my antique 26" x 1-3/8" Huffy 3 speed tricked out with 13-16T rear gears and 40-50T front sprockets.
The handlebars are 21" steel flat with homemade aero bars 10" apart.
On my Jamis commuter bike I attached the front nose section to the head tube so I can steer behind the fairing. This also make for very little cross wind input. Side panels and a tail box are on the drawing board. The laminate made from 1" wire hex mesh, 5 mil plastic sheet, and contact cement came out well. Now I have a choice of materials to try: 4mm coroplast, mesh laminate, 3/8" plywood, Al and SS sheet metal, and aluminum honeycomb. panels.


Reply author: Upright Dave
Replied on: 06/30/2014 21:38:44
Message:

Thanks Mike. Its great to hear your enthusiasm and experience! I only tried this because of this thread.

Cool idea Grant. I like building rc airplanes and sailplanes for fun. It's fun applying rc techniques to bikes. I recently started building foam airplanes but usually use wood. Here's the foam box I made for the tail. It only weighs 1 oz. It's a difficult to reach area if you're on the bike so I didn't use a zipper. I may glass it later but no use doing that right now. I can just reach the back of the tail to pull it off. I really don't know if it will help reduce vacuum but I'll try it.















Reply author: Upright Dave
Replied on: 07/01/2014 13:06:08
Message:

Had a great run this morning! +1.1mph on the sock! 26.45mph avg! Might be some more speed in it. Needs some velcro on the front sides or bottom of the box. It was blowing outward. More pics:













Reply author: Upright Mike
Replied on: 07/01/2014 19:43:45
Message:

Great job Dave! I had velcro patches originally along the top side opening of my sock. However I didn't have enough and the flaps would come apart. Then the scratchy "hook" side of the velcro tabs would occassionally scratch my face or lips onetime drawing blood! It was crazy! Maybe a zipper would help. A long time ago, I had my mom sew on a zipper along the top opening of my sock. It definitely helped to keep things closed. However, sometimes it would start to unzip itself. I think the key is to extend the zipper and its cloth runners about an inch past the ends of the sock opening. Some cloths or jackets do this already. Otherwise with my zipper terminating on the spandex itself, it seemed to just keep getting tugged on and unzipping itself. So I resorted to biting it to hold it close (Another crazy idea), and then a safety pin (which I didn't like so close to my face either!).


Reply author: Upright Dave
Replied on: 07/12/2014 15:05:37
Message:

Thanks! Good points. I usually fill the hole up front with my head and look through the Petg. I didn't use any zippers. I'm assuming the velcro has more margin for error. I used the industrial type. Added another foam box inside around the legs. Packing tape seals the holes. Stitched up the hand holes some as they were too big. Hope it works. Not much else to do now but work on the motor.



Reply author: Upright Dave
Replied on: 07/15/2014 19:40:48
Message:

Ok. A few more pics. Trying to get wrinkle free pedaling and maybe save a few watts on the material rubbing my knees.

Edit: I made another hinged (using packing tape) flip up hatch so I could get to the downtube shifters. First one didn't work right. The hatch has a channel cut in the middle to get by the top tube/pump. Also snaps into place with tabs. Really need to relocate the shifters but this will do for now. Down to one finger clearance now.






Reply author: Upright Dave
Replied on: 08/22/2014 15:22:50
Message:

Changed to a dual hinge hatch. Works better. Bike performance is still good. Small side/cross winds slow it down both directions though. Its pretty stable in light winds.


Reply author: warren
Replied on: 08/22/2014 18:42:19
Message:

Dave - Can you get somebody to take a picture of you riding the bike?


Reply author: Upright Dave
Replied on: 08/23/2014 12:00:05
Message:

Sure. I took a couple pictures this morning.


Reply author: Upright Mike
Replied on: 08/24/2014 09:35:02
Message:

That looks awesome Dave! Having a tail was something I always wanted! (Wait that doesn't sound right!)


Reply author: Grant-53
Replied on: 09/16/2014 13:21:27
Message:

[URL=http://s1187.photobucket.com/user/wgconnor/media/SAM_0106.jpg.html][/URL]

This what I have been looking to do and you can see the similarity. Still suggest you mount the Zzipper to the head tube. Definitely awesome! Whether a tail or a fin you'll be able to keep up with Rocky the Flying Squirrel;)


Reply author: Upright Dave
Replied on: 09/20/2014 19:06:13
Message:

Thanks for the replies guys. I'll let you do the headtube mount Grant. I've spent way too much time on this thing for little gain.

One thing still ponders my mind. Given: An Olympic level sprinter can do 42-45 mph with no fairings and maybe some chemicals.

How much extra speed did Jim Glover really get out of the 51mph full upright streamliner? Assuming he was an Olympic level cyclist..............or was he?


Reply author: Upright Mike
Replied on: 09/22/2014 02:29:45
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by Upright Dave

Thanks for the replies guys. I'll let you do the headtube mount Grant. I've spent way too much time on this thing for little gain.

One thing still ponders my mind. Given: An Olympic level sprinter can do 42-45 mph with no fairings and maybe some chemicals.

How much extra speed did Jim Glover really get out of the 51mph full upright streamliner? Assuming he was an Olympic level cyclist..............or was he?


Hi Dave, Jim Glover was and is a pretty strong cyclist, but I don't think he was on the Olympic team. He is a cycling coach now. Here we are with the Moultons back in 2012 at Battle Mountain, when they were brought out of "retirement" to be ridden by Will Kennedy and Jim Glover. I think maybe these photos are posted somewhere already earlier in this thread but I'll post them anyway again.

PS: I think you might be discovering what I discovered too. There is a lot of work to do for an upright fairing (though you've now done much more work than me, who just bought mine!), for not a lot of gain. A full fairing would undoubtably give more gain, but more heart attacks because they sail and swerve in even the lightest of wind gusts. So.... a recumbent is the way to go!

http://www.recumbents.com/wisil/whpsc2012/resultstuesday.htm
Battle Mountain 2012 - Left to Right
Dave Kennedy, Will Kennedy, Jim Glover, Mike Mowett


The original upright king of speed bike - though Jim Glover rode a hard shell version I think...


Reply author: Grant-53
Replied on: 10/01/2014 09:43:55
Message:

Having the fairing attached to the frame instead of the handlebars does away with crosswind instability.

Tuft testing my front fairing showed turbulence around the front brakes.

The Rocket tail cone of Oscar Egg duplicates an aircraft style tail.

I am sorting through the pictures I took at the National Sailplane Museum.

A road bike capable of 30-35 mph would be a success.


Reply author: Upright Dave
Replied on: 10/02/2014 11:34:14
Message:

Checked my top speed today at 406 ft elevation, 75 degrees temp.

Run1 35.42mph 52/15 gear
Run2 35.47mph 52/14 gear


Reply author: Grant-53
Replied on: 10/04/2014 13:01:01
Message:

51.29mph (82.53kph),
unpaced cycling record over 200m

'Liner I broke the unpaced cycling record over 200m (conventional riding position), reaching 50.21mph (80.79kph) at 11th International Human Powered Speed Championships held in Indianapolis in late September 1985. The rider was Jim Glover.


'Liner II about to break the World Speed Record 'Liner II (illustrated), built from 'Liner I, was slightly lighter at 45lbs (20.75kg). At the 12th HPV Speed Championship in Vancouver in August 1986, Jim Glover rode the bicycle to set a new record at 51.29mph (82.53kph), which has yet to be beaten. Nearly 100 HPVs took part, but only a dozen or so were able to exceed 50 mph (80.45 kph).


'Liner III, built from 'Liner II, is potentially faster than either of its predecessors. However, it never fully achieved its potential - circumstances always seemed to conspire against it. In testing though, it has exceeded 55mph (88kph). It was, however, the overall winner at the International Festival of the Bicycle HPV event at Hull, Quebec in 1989.

While Liner's I and II were based on a modified production AM7, the Liner III, is based on a white prototype AM-SPEED and therefore weighed a little less than the 'Liner II. A unicrown front fork was used, similar to that on the AM-ATB, now APB, and the bottom bracket height was increased by jacking-up the rear suspension. This feature had been used in 'Liners I and II, and allowed the chainwheel to be incorporated within the fairing.

The transmission consists of 86 and 82 tooth chainwheels, driving a close-ratio 9, 10, 11, 12 tooth block, thus giving a gear range of 116 - 162".

The fairing, designed and built by Doug Milliken of New York, attaches to the AM's frame via the standard front and rear carrier mounting points. The main body of the fairing is cut from 6mm thick plastic foam-cored artist's board, with the clear panel formed from Lexan. The top and bottom vacuum-formed sections are high impact polystyrene for the opaque sections, and PETG for the clear panel. Aerodynamic wheel disks were added to the accurately balanced wheels, which would spin at about 1,000rpm. 'Liners I and II used standard AM-Wolber tyres inflated to 120psi. The 'Liner III uses Moulton-Wolber slicks run at 140psi.
I found this description of the Moulton record bikes. If I remember correctly Doug Milliken was associated with Calspan in Buffalo, NY.


Reply author: Upright Dave
Replied on: 10/04/2014 15:35:15
Message:

Good post Grant. Too bad they didn't bring those to battle mountain in 2012. Maybe they don't own them anymore. Looks like the soft shell versions only did 39-43mph from the results. Even less when you minus off the 4619 ft altitude and .6% downhill.


Reply author: Upright Dave
Replied on: 10/16/2014 20:06:27
Message:

Getting back to the great picture of Upright Mike standing next to Jim Glover. Ok so your telling me you didn't ask him about the actual gain on those faired moultons? Maybe it's not proper streamliner etiquette but..... I would have asked him.


Reply author: AviationMetalSmith
Replied on: 10/22/2014 16:14:04
Message:


https://flic.kr/p/oNkCe6


Reply author: jeffeng
Replied on: 11/16/2014 13:19:57
Message:

Hi all, my name is Jeff. This is an awesome community you guys have built.

I'm writing because I'm interested in making a simple and inexpensive fairing for my upright road bike. I bike-commute all winter, and the primary purpose is to combat the Boston wind/snow/rain. The polar vortex really got to me last year.

It looks like the fairings discussed in this forum might be a great solution. By chance might anyone be able to direct me to a how-to, or suggest a way to get started? I think Grant-53's coroplast designs might be appropriate, but really I'd be grateful for any advice/guidance/suggestions.

Thank you very much in advance!


Reply author: Grant-53
Replied on: 11/19/2014 13:58:17
Message:

Welcome Jeff, My father is a Boston U. alumni from the 1950's. First question, do you have drop handle bars or flat bars? Next the distance from your shoulders to your knees is the most important measurement to determine for sizing. Key is mounting the fairing to the frame. I have used two methods successfully. One is to use a u-bolt or muffler clamp to attach a boom to the head tube. The coroplast fairing pictured is attached to the down tube with two zip ties spaced about 3 inches apart. It is made from a 24 x 48 piece of 4mm coroplast for lightness. To gain speed, some type of tail piece is needed. I am working on a set of plans for a complete full fairing for a mountain/hybrid bike. The motorcycle paper model plans on the Yamaha Global site could be adapted to a road bike with drop handle bars or aero bars. I live in western NY 42N 72W just out of reach of the lake effect snows


Reply author: timtak
Replied on: 11/26/2014 22:35:21
Message:

Thank you for the advice here.

I have attached a Kawasaki motorbike windshield to the front of my bike. I am thinking of bolting another but I may get a Zzipper, but probably not a sock.
[url=https://flic.kr/p/qa6TYE][/url][url=https://flic.kr/p/qa6TYE]
Motorcycle Windshield on Road bike[/url] by [url=https://www.flickr.com/people/64015205@N00/]timtak[/url], on Flickr


Reply author: Grant-53
Replied on: 11/29/2014 15:32:07
Message:

http://i1187.photobucket.com/albums/z385/wgconnor/124.jpg
This is the layout of one of my front fairings. The solid lines are cuts and the dash lines are overlap positions. The shape is secured by using zip ties looped through holes an inch apart.

The Kawasaki windscreen has the curvature to minimize side wind inputs.


Reply author: Grant-53
Replied on: 12/05/2014 11:46:05
Message:

The big gains in drag reduction seem to be in the tail section.


Reply author: shooky56
Replied on: 12/05/2014 12:54:05
Message:

http://i1372.photobucket.com/albums/ag335/shooky56/Cycling/UprightMike1_zps130a78ef.png

Mike: I did mess around with moving the rider some, don't have a frame designer in this yet so the frame is still my recumbent. The upright feature is quite a ways from being usable with any level of convenience but the shape did have a nice teardrop.

On your racing body sock. I think the pressure drag should be greatly improved with the inclusion of a more tapered tail area. It may be possible to use expansion foam to generate that shape, even "outside the sock" like a rear end to the seat. But anything to improve that bluntness at your fear area. Taper could be inside the sock but that might be a bit cumbersome.

Also, did you read (not sure where the link would be these days) that article where a guy who lectures about TT positions "ate crow" about water bottles. The meal was to himself as he said "No bottles on the seat tube". Turns out many riders have lower drag with a seat tube bottle than none at all (keeps you from having 3 points of interruption in the leg area by filling the gap between the legs). Downtube was a no-no. Aerobar shaped bottles were the best of all and actually improved net drag.


Reply author: shooky56
Replied on: 12/05/2014 13:00:47
Message:

tail area: Oh you'd actually said that yourself, sorry for the redundancy. I'm fascinated by your efforts. BTW, I don't race now but, at age 51, I rode my p3c on my 20 mile loop course (not out and back but starts/finishes same spot) at 25.3 mph average. 40 mile loop at 24.0, 10K at 26.3 (out and back), and 5K at 26.8 (out and back). I'm getting old and weak and missed my heyday a bit busy raising kids but it sounds like we are ... or were... similar motors.

About all I focused on was hard training and racing form. Trying to hold the air gremlins at bay :)


Reply author: Grant-53
Replied on: 12/06/2014 10:01:11
Message:

The only racing I ever tried was pacing the school bus across town on my Huffy 3 spd as a teen. I am 61 and a life long commuter. I ooze along at 10-12 mph on a Jamis Arragon. I see two populations in need of fairings. One is the middle aged man on a mountain bike and the other is a high speed road rider on a triathlon or TT style bike. I spent some time discussing triathlon legal accessories and a scooter shell for motor pacing with Greg Coombs in North Carolina this summer. The adage from motorsport is that there is no substitute for cubic inches, cubic brains, and cubic money. In our case cubic inches translates to VOx.


Reply author: AviationMetalSmith
Replied on: 12/17/2014 10:10:37
Message:

[url=https://flic.kr/p/pCYXsJ][/url][url=https://flic.kr/p/pCYXsJ]Bunau-Varilla-Velo[/url] by [url=https://www.flickr.com/people/11629987@N02/]AviationMetalSmith[/url], on Flickr
The Bunau-Varila Streamliner (above), and my "Type 6" (below) for comparison...
[url=https://flic.kr/p/eNLyBr][/url][url=https://flic.kr/p/eNLyBr]Type6Velomobile1990[/url] by [url=https://www.flickr.com/people/11629987@N02/]AviationMetalSmith[/url], on Flickr


Reply author: Speedbiker
Replied on: 12/17/2014 15:26:02
Message:

Reverse evolution.


Reply author: AviationMetalSmith
Replied on: 12/19/2014 09:30:24
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by Speedbiker

Reverse evolution.


Philippe Bunau-Varilla
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philippe-Jean_Bunau-Varilla
was a millionaire, I'm not.



Reply author: Grant-53
Replied on: 12/19/2014 17:44:05
Message:

On the 20" bike with a full fairing I would try to clean up the area above the windshield. A front wheel disc might be safe in this case. I have a similar frame awaiting a project but a mountain bike is first on the list.
I noted the rib construction of antique streamliner compared to sailplane construction of aluminum skin over a 1" square tubing space frame.


Reply author: Speedbiker
Replied on: 12/19/2014 22:16:28
Message:

Of everyone I know who has built their own faired bicycle and raced at Battle Mountain, none were remotely wealthy as far as I recall. Most are of average financial resource. Most of the top machines were built on a modest budget. Styrofoam and fiberglass are very affordable, yet wonderous, efficient,and fast bicycles can be built.


Reply author: AviationMetalSmith
Replied on: 12/20/2014 10:03:37
Message:

I should add a few notes about the Type 6, which was pictured, above...
1) The Fairing, or Fairings, the Shell, is made of Five or more parts, and is held together with Pop-Rivets (blind rivets).
2) The Shell is made of Dupont Kevlar, so , yes, some money was involved, although I do recall being slightly "broke" after spending the money on Kevlar™...
3) Only the forward part of the Windshield is Acrylic, the rest is flexible, clear 12 mil thickness Vinyl. The sides are tinted. I had a source of this Vinyl, in my home-town, but the company moved out-of-town:
http://www.tyzall.com/weather-window.html
4) I used a No-Weld Method throughout the Construction.
5) This Velomobile represents an evolutionary dead-end. The Type 7 and the Type 9 used a *different* No-Weld Method, in their construction...

I am wavering on my decision to build another Velomobile... If I say I won't, I will change my mind , and start building one a week later...
But If I do start building,
a) I will use the semi-recumbent "Banana Seat" designed for the Type Ten,
b) I will use all Fiberglass,
c) I will put a hinged , transparent Hatch , in the roof, in case I want to stand on the pedals.
d) It will have all LED Lighting
e) It will be a bit wider, for more "elbow-room".
f) In deference to everything we know about Aerodynamics, it will have the full width "Farm Triangle" Reflector, and the accompanying wide Rear Panniers. I will be unable to taper the tail. I need Visibility in New York Traffic !!!
g) The Shell would have to be One-Piece.
Items a. and c. above will help lower the roof height.


Reply author: Speedbiker
Replied on: 12/20/2014 13:57:38
Message:

I respectfully hope you are actually using lexan or PETG in your windscreen as acrylic creates dangerous edges when broken. If cost is a factor, PETG is very affordable, and it tears rather than breaks at modest temperatures.


Reply author: AviationMetalSmith
Replied on: 12/21/2014 10:56:50
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by Speedbiker

I respectfully hope you are actually using lexan or PETG in your windscreen as acrylic creates dangerous edges when broken. If cost is a factor, PETG is very affordable, and it tears rather than breaks at modest temperatures.


I had a big role of PETG that I got while working at the local plastics factory (that I mentioned earlier), I think it's still out-back, possibly buried... it was "surplus".

The newer designs omitted the clear windshield altogether.

But yes, and no, I had tried to form acrylic, but never had much luck with it. Acrylic doesn't not shatter as readily as Styrene. I know it is illegal to use Styrene as a Motorcycle windshield...

I think I made a mistake earlier, under b) "it will be all fiberglass", should read "it will be fiberglass and Coroplast™ (polypropylene).



Reply author: AviationMetalSmith
Replied on: 12/30/2014 08:57:08
Message:

http://www.dccargomall.com/24-VeeBoard-8-x-8-x-24-.aspx

[url=https://flic.kr/p/qjpPdw][/url][url=https://flic.kr/p/qjpPdw]45 seconds to retrofit[/url] by [url=https://www.flickr.com/people/11629987@N02/]AviationMetalSmith[/url], on Flickr

Was riding a Citibike around Manhattan yesterday. Came across a piece of Plastic, intended for protecting shipping pallets from Fork Lift Blades, had some Bungee cords...

Quickest known retrofit/conversion of a bike from unaired to partially faired?

I had to stop using it account it was blocking the headlight.

[url=https://flic.kr/p/pEcxen][/url][url=https://flic.kr/p/pEcxen]DSCF2215[/url] by [url=https://www.flickr.com/people/11629987@N02/]AviationMetalSmith[/url], on Flickr

[url=https://flic.kr/p/qAXR2M][/url][url=https://flic.kr/p/qAXR2M]Aerodynamic Experiment[/url] by [url=https://www.flickr.com/people/11629987@N02/]AviationMetalSmith[/url], on Flickr

I would recommend this product to a friend.


Reply author: Grant-53
Replied on: 01/02/2015 16:37:18
Message:

This comes under the "anything is better than nothing" department along with trash bag raincoats. To protect the hands, mount it horizontally. :)


Reply author: AviationMetalSmith
Replied on: 01/02/2015 17:33:32
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by Grant-53

This comes under the "anything is better than nothing" department along with trash bag raincoats. To protect the hands, mount it horizontally. :)




Agreed. But that doesn't stop manufacturers from producing cheap vinyl ponchos...
Hopefully this will inspire someone.


Reply author: Grant-53
Replied on: 01/07/2015 09:13:13
Message:

Just getting people to think about fairings has been a struggle. The big issue is the stability fear and that is dealt with by mounting the fairing to the frame instead of the steering. It seems nearly all patents and commercial products show fairings mounted to the steering. My first homemade Zzipper clone was attached to the brake hoods on my touring bike. A stiff breeze crossing a bridge made the bike uncontrollable.
My target is to have a fairing system that reduces drag by 25% and can be built for under $100 using common hand tools.


Reply author: Upright Dave
Replied on: 01/07/2015 21:35:49
Message:

My front fairing stays on all year round. I take the sock off during the winter because it's a pain to get into. I don't bother cycling in winds more then 10mph. Not much fun going slow. I had no issues with the wind and the sock on. I just had dumb drivers passing others on a 2 lane road flying head on at me at 70mph while I'm doing around 25mph. So that's what a 95mph pass like a few feet away.


Reply author: shooky56
Replied on: 01/08/2015 12:15:22
Message:

Grant you've put oodles more thought into this but I am curious.

I remember the Zipper-T(sp? name?) something like that back in the early mid 80s? I've seen it mentioned, probably on this topic, somewhere in here.

Could a vacuum formed piece of Lexan mounted to the head tube or top tube do anything?

24x24x1/8" lexan (w/o shopping much) is available for about $15, may want thinner to vacuum form.


Reply author: Grant-53
Replied on: 01/09/2015 18:16:16
Message:

Sure, the shape is the key and most any handy material could be used. I have thought about sheet metal, cloth covered woven baskets, and even grass mats for third world markets. I have not spent much time with the vacuum form or fiberglass/resin methods since I want to keep this as simple as possible. I look over the fairing so I don't need to use a clear material to see the road. In some cases a clear section is useful for reading the speedometer.
The next aspect is the trick of getting on and off the bike with a tail box and side panels. I have some ideas about hinging sections. Since I am getting older I think the next bike will have a mixte frame.


Reply author: shooky56
Replied on: 01/10/2015 07:17:15
Message:

Just some thoughts about materials. Browsed about 5 minutes and didn't see a "oh yeah that's exactly it" type link but I've seem some stuff, like waist flotation belts, that were both waterproof, semi-rigid and safe for a fall or deformable for dismounting (like a tail box). Have no idea of costs and producing them might not be trivial either. If stuff can be injected into a mold, it doesn't get much easier to produce. But such would be good for a DIY'er in a third world. Guess the interest for impoverished areas is some protection from the weather?

Might be something you could spray over a mold and build up also that was rubbery or plastic-like (soft enough to deform in a fall or perhaps during dismounts).

Just some rambling thoughts, discard any or all.


Reply author: PUGZCAT
Replied on: 01/18/2015 10:00:10
Message:

A while back I garbage picked a 2 foot diameter orange plastic sailboat buoy, as near as I figure out anyways, that could be sectioned into segments for the top and bottom 3D curved surfaces of the front of a full bike fairing. The rest of fairing could be done in coroplast or luan plywood.


Reply author: Grant-53
Replied on: 01/18/2015 21:48:07
Message:

I have two plastic wastebaskets that may get cut up to form a tail box. For the front I would use a plastic salad bowl for the nose and wedges of sheet material over the ribs. My favorite material is hex mesh glued between pieces of tarp plastic. I have some wood paneling to try as well as sheets of aluminum.


Reply author: Grant-53
Replied on: 04/14/2015 14:45:36
Message:

http://www.wired.com/2015/04/design-bicycle-hit-138-mph-ski-slope/
This incorporated leg fairings and some serious wind tunnel work.
There has been renewed interest in streamlining uprights over at ecomodder.com so I have some work to do.


Reply author: Upright Dave
Replied on: 05/31/2015 06:42:26
Message:

I put a video cam behind my fairing. The speedometer came out black though. Camera can't see it.

Fairing run:
New video below





Reply author: Upright Mike
Replied on: 05/31/2015 07:36:10
Message:

Nice job Dave!!


Reply author: shooky56
Replied on: 05/31/2015 10:31:03
Message:

Very cool Dave! Using utility poles as a measuring device... of unknown distance. I had you at 35-37 mph depending on the pole spacing of 100-110 yards. Typical rural spacing is about 16-17/mi.

Since we didn't get the benefit of the speed overlay, exactly how fast were you flyi... er riding?





Reply author: Upright Dave
Replied on: 05/31/2015 11:36:33
Message:

Thanks guys! I checked the max speed when I got home. It was only 28.5mph.
So probably holding between 27 and 28mph once I was up to speed. The other direction usually nets a 25mph.
That area in there is usually pretty fast in the morning before the wind starts swirling around
the trees. The distance between the 2 lights is 2.0 miles. I was trying to hook a led light up to the
speedo but not having much luck.


Reply author: Grant-53
Replied on: 06/01/2015 06:35:12
Message:

Great video. Very smooth. 'Only 28.5 mph' is still impressive for a solo rider. It beats 20 mph stop and go urban traffic.
How is the temperature comfort inside? I need to pick up the pace on my bikes. Which one first the mountain bike or the TT?


Reply author: Upright Dave
Replied on: 06/01/2015 12:36:02
Message:

Riding with the fairing in the cold ends up being cold. You would still have to wear winter cycling gear. Problem is in the hot summer. No airflow = overheating.


Reply author: Upright Dave
Replied on: 06/05/2015 14:02:34
Message:

Here's another one. Same spot. Faster. Had a flashlight hooked up to the speedo but it moved on me. I'll get it right next time. Peak speed was 29mph. Had an 18 wheeler go by me. I'm still alive.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jo_-mRB47Fs



Reply author: Grant-53
Replied on: 06/05/2015 17:24:10
Message:

Was there much turbulence from the truck or was the speed limit too low for much wake?


Reply author: Upright Dave
Replied on: 06/05/2015 17:31:41
Message:

I think the speed limit is 50 or 55 on that road. He might have slowed down a bit. Didn't notice much till he passed me. The worst one I had was a semi in the opposite lane coming towards me. Somehow the wake off the truck combined with possibly a side wind and hit me big time.


Reply author: shooky56
Replied on: 06/07/2015 03:54:10
Message:

LOL Enjoyed! Grinned from ear-to-ear the entire time, thanks Dave!

Semi: That's the kind of pass I never can figure. I mean the guy had 16 feet of open left lane. Realize how difficult it is to move the top of the steering wheel 1" to the left then back...


Reply author: Grant-53
Replied on: 06/08/2015 09:31:27
Message:

The head on wake hits the nose at an angle and inputs the steering. At the risk of being repetitive I suggest the Zzipper mount to the frame and the tail be extended a bit. The CG is near the navel of the rider. Thanks for the video.


Reply author: Upright Dave
Replied on: 06/12/2015 08:12:30
Message:

Working on my odometer light. Finally got it working. Took a harbor freight 9 led flashlight, chopped the head off, cut up the circuit board, then used a piece of balsa wood and a single strand of wire, etc..... The motor was little sore today.





Reply author: shooky56
Replied on: 06/12/2015 09:01:18
Message:

Exxxcellent! --Mr. Burns "The Simpsons"


Reply author: Grant-53
Replied on: 06/13/2015 12:08:44
Message:

Looking good! I have been considering ways to incorporate headlights and gauges into my designs. Mounting a headlamp at the stagnation point is easy enough. Mirrors I can mount on either side. I have not settled on where to put the speedometer yet.


Reply author: Upright Dave
Replied on: 06/13/2015 14:36:48
Message:

Thanks guys. I can't even see the speedometer in that spot. It's mounted on a dowel swing arm so I can swing it into position. Going into the sun makes the led's appear dimmer as the camera changes exposure. I doubt if a backlit speedometer would work during the day. Camera is a cheap M10. Some of the quality gets lost when uploading to youtube. The vibration kind of effects the audio but tires are at 120psi.


Reply author: Upright Dave
Replied on: 06/15/2015 11:15:05
Message:

I really like my shadow. Full tuck position:




Reply author: Upright Dave
Replied on: 07/10/2015 15:03:24
Message:

Ruined my latex tube. Had a flat, then I made the mistake of walking the bike a small distance which cut the valve stem.

Blowout clip:
https://youtu.be/QG7gm7iPG90

Another run with the speedo light working and some tape on the camera buttons which helped on the vibration noise:
https://youtu.be/RDMGcV7di5w


www.recumbents.com : http://www.recumbents.com/forums/

© 2019 www.recumbents.com

Close Window