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Grant-53 Posted - 09/27/2017 : 16:13:01
At carolina's request I will start a separate thread for the issues facing pending legislation on the state level. States are moving to establish regulations for electric bicycles. The most common rule is to allow e-bikes to be considered the same as human powered if the motor is no more than 750 watts and the speed is limited to 20 mph (32 kph) without pedaling. I am taking the opportunity to advocate with our state representatives for additional rules that would allow velos and motorized bicycles to also be registered as limited use motorcycles up to 40 mph (64 kph). Currently trike motorcycles must have a minimum seat height of 19 inches (483 mm). To be more visible in traffic some folks are mounting orange flags (like my neighbor's trike). Given the trends in general transportation while passenger cars still have a seat height of 19 inches, van and SUV seats are 30 inches (762 mm) from the ground. The secret to survival in traffic is eye contact. Bikers get tired of hearing the excuse, "I just didn't see him." I am proposing an orange flag or strobe light 60 inches (1524 mm) high be used on low riding street trikes at least until transponders become available for signaling other vehicles. There is all kinds of troubles in NYC because the rules are not up to date. Better we help write the rules than let some lawyers who are afraid of technology. What are people doing in your area?
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Grant-53 Posted - 10/16/2017 : 09:49:57
It looks like the consensus is that lighting in the 24 to 34 inch height range would be satisfactory. If a motor alone can attain 30 mph the velo is the same as human powered version. A velo that can accelerate with traffic, 0-30 mph in 8 sec, could take the lane rather than the shoulder. Thanks for the input.
Grant-53 Posted - 10/10/2017 : 12:04:41
Not a real problem. But many people say "your so low, i cant see you!". Interesting : 55000km with ultra low recumbent -> 0 crashes
6000km upright -> get three times "overlook"...

And my "winterbike" drives 55km/h with my 200Watts
This is the response I got from a rider in Germany on ecomodder.com Alternative Transportation forum.
Using Sport Rider 2017 buyers guide the tail light heights appear to be about 30 to 34 inches high much like the seat post lights on an upright. If the NoCom is the ultimate low rider and the tail box is 30-32 inches high then a top light should be in the normal range for tail lights.
I wonder if the length of a recumbent makes it more noticeable from the side
Grant-53 Posted - 10/06/2017 : 12:49:55
My Honda 50 cc scooter tail light is at 24 inches. The question becomes what is most readily recognized in the field of vision of other drivers. At what distance do we focus on the road and other vehicles? Is it 3 to 5 seconds of travel ahead? Can we see the signals of two or three vehicles in front or to the side and anticipate their movements? I am looking for an optimal combination of visibility and low air resistance.
warren Posted - 10/06/2017 : 12:10:49
Motorcycle tail lights are lower. It's probably better to look at those for inspiration.
Grant-53 Posted - 10/05/2017 : 23:42:28
The center brake light on our daughter's Prizm/Corolla is 40 inches from the ground. A cab marker light uses a GE 194 bulb and a 1157 is used in car stop and tail lights. Having a bright strobe at eye level would be a pain at night. The Prizm is 54 inches tall. So a beacon or cab mount light at 40 inches may be sufficient. The some of the motorcycle folks are looking at streamlined bodies and variable height seating. See shultzengineering.us
Grant-53 Posted - 09/28/2017 : 15:03:50
So I got my handy tape measure out and took some dimensions on the Dodge Grand Caravan (2003). Headlight bulb 29" Taillight 36" Brake light, center 65" Seat height 30" My eye level behind the wheel 60". Position and intensity of lighting is key. SAE has standards for vehicles and NYS calls for a white headlight visible at 100 ft and a red tail light. In the auto parts business we sold a ton of lights for cars and trucks. There are products available that are aerodynamic and inexpensive. I am 6 ft tall so a 60 inch flag would in the center of my visual field behind the wheel. A headlight height on a typical hybrid bike could range from 30-40" depending if it is mounted on the brake caliper bolt or the handlebar. The rear light under the seat is 33-36" on two bikes I have. The 40" height is the lowest spec I have seen for the roof of a sports car. The law in NYS for motorcycles is 27" minimum seat height on a two wheeler and 19" on a trike. Looking at motorcycle specifications 27-31" is common for a sport bike or cruiser. Most places require a motor vehicle going faster than 30 mph to be registered and licensed. My 50cc Honda scooter (30 mph) would need insurance. State Farm quoted me $52 a year. If I pulled out the carb and exhaust restrictions to go faster then I need a motorcycle license.

I don't expect much in the way of bike only infrastructure beyond a painted lane here and there. I do speed play in traffic most places. What I have noticed is if I follow the rules and signal as if I am a driver I get no negative feedback. I use a mirror and horn the way I do when in a motor vehicle. If I could accelerate to 30 mph from a stop in 8-10 seconds then I could keep up with traffic. The areas that have a higher posted speed are either four lane or have wide shoulders in our area. The only challenge is when there are 'turn only' lanes. We have lots of long hills here and people are used to dealing with slow moving vehicles such as heavy trucks and farm tractors. A vehicle moving slower than 10 mph below the posted limit would be expected to put on four way flashers.

A positive trend is the use of bike racks on buses and rail cars. British Railways has let people put their touring bike in the mail car for decades. Working for a company that produced rail car interiors I have seen drawings and photos of racks in passenger compartments. Riding from Buffalo, NY to Ft. Worth, TX on Amtrack I could see how easy it would be to have roll on bike racks. It might be more difficult for a long wheelbase machine if one had to make a right angle turn to load. The front external bus racks are fairly easy to use and the risk of fire from a battery pack or liquid fuel is minimal. Thanks for your input.
purplepeopledesign Posted - 09/28/2017 : 10:17:46
First, I have to say that the first post on this thread is much better thought out than the hijack post in the other thread. In that respect, I take back my original demand for the OP to shoo.

That said...

A passive flag, maybe needs to be high enough to emulate a person waving arms. In that sense, a 3 foot tall child might reach to 48 inches with their hands. More than enough height for a moving object to attract attention.

My flashing front light sits at 20" on my tilting trike and the rear strobe is at 12". The intensity is far more important than the position. People complain to me that the 400 lumen front light is blindingly bright. The 2W Planet Bike strobe is so effective that motorists coming from behind begin their pass about 100 feet sooner than when I had a cheap generic red flasher.

Position is much less important. Police cruisers have flashing lights on the front grille. That's gonna be around 2 ft above the pavement. Even when those are the only strobes flashing, we never miss them because they are very high intensity... probably in the 5-10 watts each.

Just like with the lights for motor vehicles, there should be standards for measuring the effectiveness of bike lights. If bikes have to have lights on a post, then so should the cars. Since that is not only ugly, but ridiculously impractical, I think more thoughtful thought is required to figure out what actually attracts the attention of other road users.


Those who claim to be making history are often the same ones repeating it.

Video of my trike
Photos of my trike
carolina Posted - 09/27/2017 : 23:35:36
There is no infrastructure, this ain't europe. Bicycle are lil more excepted. Dangerous here. Their not gonna do anything. U and l will be dead and building in heaven before it will happen. Would take 9 trillion to covert infrastructure. Once they get their greedy hands in it. U want need a bicycle or velomobile.

Velo want keep up with traffic uphill/with motor.

Grant-53 Posted - 09/27/2017 : 20:30:11
Have you determined the top speed the velo can reach using the bafang? How fast is it from 0 to 30 mph? I think your velo might well keep up with traffic, that would be ideal. Our local state representatives are first rate and have been promoting e-bike legislation. I have been compiling supporting documentation including data from all the states and provinces, state advocacy groups, and technical specifications. With former leaders in jail and a major chairman retiring, now is the time to move on this. We are not willing to let the 'tax and buy votes' crowd go unchecked. The Medicaid money won't last for ever. A billion, a billion there and pretty soon your're talking real money. The town judge is a recumbent trike rider.
carolina Posted - 09/27/2017 : 18:06:30
Well just keep the disease in ny and its all good. Show em what california does. But it want do any good. NY the most liberal money sucking place. Go riding, forget it, u want get anywhere. At least ya have medicare.

Grant-53 Posted - 09/27/2017 : 17:30:42
I get it. The reality is anything that has a motor is treated as a motor vehicle unless we can convince people otherwise. Up to a speed of 20 to 30 mph we can push to be considered a bicycle. Free. If we want to go faster on the highway we are considered motorcycles. A 750 w motor should get a velo to 35 mph easy. In NC you can do 30 mph without pedaling and no license. That's the highest speed allowed anywhere. It's 25 mph in PA six miles away. The NYPD is holding up any e-bike legislation until they can get a tamper proof speed control provision. Right now we can't do squat here without risking arrest and confiscation of any powered machine that is not a registered scooter. I want more freedom to decide how fast I want to go on a machine of my own design and construction. At the very least I want both class 1 and 2 bikes legal. I want my gas engine on my mountain bike legal too.
carolina Posted - 09/27/2017 : 16:39:40
Read this:


I dont wanta never haf to register a bicycle or velomobile. What do u want next, plates, insurance, city/county tax every year on a dang bicycle with a bafang???? Thats where your trying to stand.


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