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alevand
human power expert

USA
2947 Posts

Posted - 01/15/2011 :  11:05:12  Show Profile  Visit alevand's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Rick, whats the effect of not having the steering link and lower control arm in the same horizontal plane?

C:
Tony Levand
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OpusthePoet
recumbent guru

USA
678 Posts

Posted - 01/15/2011 :  14:38:48  Show Profile  Visit OpusthePoet's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by alevand

Rick, whats the effect of not having the steering link and lower control arm in the same horizontal plane?

C:
Tony Levand



I can answer that one: the steering link and the lower control arm can't be in the same plane without inducing bump steer. What has to happen is the extended arm of the steering arm has to intersect the effective center of the suspension assembly. I don't have access to a drawing of it, but what you need is for a line drawn through the centers of the pivots of the steering arm has to intersect a line drawn through the centers of the pivots of the A-arm, and a line drawn perpendicular to the axis of the strut from the top mount of the strut (the "instant center" of the suspension). If the 3 lines don't intersect then the steering arm will move in or out as the suspension travels.

Opus

My gas is up to $.99 a burrito, $5.99 for premium and I'm only getting 20 miles to the regular burrito.
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alevand
human power expert

USA
2947 Posts

Posted - 01/15/2011 :  16:44:56  Show Profile  Visit alevand's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Your telling me the two parallel links have the same pivot.

C:
Tony Levand

Edited by - alevand on 01/16/2011 06:38:39
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OpusthePoet
recumbent guru

USA
678 Posts

Posted - 01/16/2011 :  16:19:31  Show Profile  Visit OpusthePoet's Homepage  Reply with Quote
No, I'm saying the 2 links can't be parallel without inducing bump steer, and that because the pivots are not co-located there will be some measure of bump steer. But, if at ride height the instant centers of all 3 links (including the virtual link from the top of the strut) are in the same place when viewed from the front/rear, then the bump steer will be at a minimum.

Opus

My gas is up to $.99 a burrito, $5.99 for premium and I'm only getting 20 miles to the regular burrito.
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alevand
human power expert

USA
2947 Posts

Posted - 01/16/2011 :  18:43:07  Show Profile  Visit alevand's Homepage  Reply with Quote
So did Rick take an artistic license, or will he have bump steer?

C:
Tony Levand
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raymondg
recumbent guru

865 Posts

Posted - 01/16/2011 :  19:40:30  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I am finding the transparency forming sub-thread very interesting, and is something I've been meaning to try for a long time, just haven't gotten around to it. The main reason the Orion is a camera vehicle is because I lack confidence in my ability to make a transparent top of adequate quality.

Years ago I read an article (in Sport Aviation IIRC) about a company that made face shields for astronaut helmets and some fighter jet canopies. In this article they mentioned that they coated their molds with some Vaseline looking compound before thermal-forming the plastic to the mold surface. They would not reveal what the substance was, but I have always wondered. Has anyone experimented with mold coatings for this application or have any knowledge of what might work?

Regards,
Raymond
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rickmantoo
recumbent enthusiast

USA
274 Posts

Posted - 01/17/2011 :  06:32:17  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Tony
Tony
My understanding of bump steer is as long as the steering tie-rod swings in the same arc as the suspension swings there will not be any changes in the relative length of the steering rod so there should not be any toe changes over a bump. That being said there is 1.5 “of travel in this design and I do not have the steering rod shown in its final position.

Raymond
One can get some very accurate shapes by experimenting with the “art” of free blowing petg plastic.

Rick
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rickmantoo
recumbent enthusiast

USA
274 Posts

Posted - 01/17/2011 :  07:31:21  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
In order to get started on doing the modifications to the frame and front suspension I needed to make some room in the Manufacturing Facility (garage). So I purchased 2 bicycle lifts and installed them to the rafters. Each lift has a capacity of 55 lb. so this setup will hold the completely assembled vehicle.
Here is the complet vehicle on the lift. It took several minutes of alternating each lift to get the vehicle raised.


Here is the vehicle raised up enough to walk under get the one of the cars in.


After I knew it would work I removed the frame from the body and hoisted just the body out of the way untill I finish the mods to the frame.


Rick

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Garrie L Hill
human power supergeek

USA
1692 Posts

Posted - 01/17/2011 :  08:21:32  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
LOOK! Up in the sky!! Is it a bird? Is it a plane? No!! It's SuperVelo!!!!

Garrie "carbon based lifeform" Hill
HPRA Co-Dictator of the East
for pics of some of my time and money sucking projects
http://garriehill.winkflash.com/
and
http://s58.photobucket.com/albums/g277/cfbb/
and videos
http://vimeo.com/5513519


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LunaticFringe
recumbent enthusiast

USA
384 Posts

Posted - 01/17/2011 :  09:11:13  Show Profile  Visit LunaticFringe's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Very cool.

Jeff in Tucson
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dshowalt
Starting Member

USA
4 Posts

Posted - 01/21/2011 :  15:25:34  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
With the McPherson strut how are you going to account for the lower control arm outboard pivot point traveling in an arc (when viewed from the front) with a fixeed spring housing and top support? Is there enough clearance for the lower cyllender to slide over the uppercylendar containing the spring to account for this arc? Can't wait to see pictures of the actual assembly

Dave
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alevand
human power expert

USA
2947 Posts

Posted - 01/21/2011 :  17:04:08  Show Profile  Visit alevand's Homepage  Reply with Quote
very uplifting

C:
Tony Levand

Edited by - alevand on 01/21/2011 17:04:21
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rickmantoo
recumbent enthusiast

USA
274 Posts

Posted - 01/22/2011 :  06:59:24  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Dave

The strut will be mounted at the top in rubber bushings on the top of the 3/8 rod. This will provide some rotation. The two aluminum pieces will be bonded together and the suspension travel about 1 inch will be along the 3/8 rod at the top. I should have most of the pieces finished this weekend.

Rick
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rickmantoo
recumbent enthusiast

USA
274 Posts

Posted - 01/23/2011 :  14:16:06  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Well I was able to get most of the strut parts fabricated yesterday and today even though it was -12F this morning. The heater was working overtime!
I started out by cutting some 1" 6061 T6 tubing to length and one 1 1/4 solid bar stock.


Here are the cut pieces of aluminum, a piece of 1" delrin rod and 2 pieces of 3/8 stainless steel rod.


I then proceeded to male a bunch of parts for the struts. Here are the struts parts so far.


One of the last things to do is drill and tap the bottom piece of the strut for the 1/2-20 axel bolt. I did that in a drill press.


Here is a picture of the top and bottom pieces of the strut mounted to the wheel. I still need to make brackets to hold the backing plate for the drum brake and for the steering rods.


Next on to modifying the frame to accept the new parts

Rick
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mhelander
recumbent enthusiast

Finland
383 Posts

Posted - 01/23/2011 :  22:41:28  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Looks very sturdy McPerson setup. I'm very interested about resulting drive-ability and weight compared to original setup.

Cheers,
-Mika
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rickmantoo
recumbent enthusiast

USA
274 Posts

Posted - 01/24/2011 :  12:17:37  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Mika
Being the first one of these I am doing, I went heaver rather the lighter in the strut parts.

I am also interested in how the drive-ability of vehicle will compare to the original suspension set up. Time will tell. Thanks for the comment!

Rick
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Garrie L Hill
human power supergeek

USA
1692 Posts

Posted - 01/24/2011 :  14:37:17  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
With all of this talk about velo suspensions, I thought everyone could do with a bit of Suspension Porn! From Lamborghini.



Here's a link to the article and MORE pictures!!!! Excuse me while I go change my underwear. http://www.gizmag.com/lamborghini-introduces-pushrod-suspension-to-series-production/17666/

Garrie "carbon based lifeform" Hill
HPRA Co-Dictator of the East
for pics of some of my time and money sucking projects
http://garriehill.winkflash.com/
and
http://s58.photobucket.com/albums/g277/cfbb/
and videos
http://vimeo.com/5513519



Edited by - Garrie L Hill on 01/24/2011 15:46:49
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purplepeopledesign
recumbent guru

Canada
685 Posts

Posted - 01/24/2011 :  16:32:25  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Anybody know what that little link on the bell crank is for?

:)ensen.

Those who claim to be making history are often the same ones repeating it.

Video of my trike
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MdSLRD_2vzc
Photos of my trike
http://www.flickr.com/photos/purplepeople/
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teubner
recumbent guru

796 Posts

Posted - 01/24/2011 :  17:00:33  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by purplepeopledesign

Anybody know what that little link on the bell crank is for?


Doesn't look beefy enough for a sway bar
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mikes
recumbent enthusiast

Canada
155 Posts

Posted - 01/25/2011 :  06:01:25  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Brake line?
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warren
human power expert

USA
6120 Posts

Posted - 01/25/2011 :  06:07:39  Show Profile  Visit warren's Homepage  Reply with Quote
+1 on brake line.
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purplepeopledesign
recumbent guru

Canada
685 Posts

Posted - 01/25/2011 :  06:26:46  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Brake line looks like it's sticking out from the orange caliper. The part in question stick up between the tire and the shock.

:)ensen.

Those who claim to be making history are often the same ones repeating it.

Video of my trike
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MdSLRD_2vzc
Photos of my trike
http://www.flickr.com/photos/purplepeople/
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mikes
recumbent enthusiast

Canada
155 Posts

Posted - 01/25/2011 :  07:00:06  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Oh....that link
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LongJohn
recumbent guru

China
581 Posts

Posted - 01/25/2011 :  07:50:42  Show Profile  Visit LongJohn's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by purplepeopledesign

Anybody know what that little link on the bell crank is for?

:)ensen.

Those who claim to be making history are often the same ones repeating it.

Video of my trike
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MdSLRD_2vzc
Photos of my trike
http://www.flickr.com/photos/purplepeople/



I think that's a torsionbar-link to reduce rolling of the automobile during cornering.

Thomas
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rickmantoo
recumbent enthusiast

USA
274 Posts

Posted - 02/02/2011 :  08:43:02  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Well I was able to do some work on the frame mods over the weekend. I did not get as far as I hoped to because I had the lathe motor die as I was trying to finish up the parts for the struts. I need to check around town to see if I can get a new one at a good price.

So I did some cutting and brazing on the frame instead.

I tacked together the sliding boom tubing that will raise the crank up 1 1/2".


I then Mounted the frame in my bench vice after I pulled the bench away from the wall and used my tube mitering jig to cut the the frame to accept the new boom.


I printed out a drawing full size for the front swing arms and brazed them together with some coupler nuts and 3/8x 0.035 tubing.


I then took the frame and set it up on a straight flat table and measured where the new mounting points needed to go. This is when I discovered that the front mounting point of the swing arms needed to be where the steering arm was. So I redesigned the swing arms with a bend in the front tube to move the mounting point forward 2 inches.

Here I am bending the swing arm tube.


Here are both swing arms ready to go.


I then mocked up the mounting points for the swing arm on the frame checking alignment and placement a dozen times or so.


Once I convinced my self that the mounting point were aligned. I tacked them in place and then moved the frame back to the vice for the final brazing.


Here is a picture of the swing arms assembled to the frame.


Last thing I did was epoxy the two parts of the strut body together and clamp the while they cure.


So next I need to fix my lathe motor and finish a couple of parts for the struts and then mount them to the frame. Oh yea shovel some snow!

Rick
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