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Speedbiker
human power supergeek

USA
1996 Posts
Posted - 04/17/2012 :  21:37:41  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Fantastic discussion. I think this year might see a big leap in the sport. Ever notice how almost everyone is rehashing Matt's ideas from 15-20 years ago? Talk about ahead of your time!

Sean, another thing you might test some day is shorter and shorter cranks, and less knee bulge. And let's remember, only one bulge is present at one time, for a very short time. Also, nobody has beat the record set by a bike with a bulge.
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stix
New Member

Australia
59 Posts
Posted - 04/17/2012 :  22:08:26  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Look Power pedals could be used BUT they would over-read power. This could be adjusted for when looking at the data. For example if the the Look pedals were set for 170mm cranks and 150mm cranks were used the power would over-read by a factor of 17/15. Might be an acceptable compromise for Battle Mountain.

quote:
Originally posted by Larry Lem

I don't know if Matt Weaver designed the flexible knee bubbles on purpose or whether they were a fix for insufficient knee space. I think it is interesting that Sean is trying this.

I wonder what kind of power meter Sean could use. He's using a custom narrow bb and Odyssey Euro Black Widow 150 mm cranks, so SRM and Quark cannot be used. Look Keo Power pedals require 170 mm arms or longer. Garmin Vector and Brim Bros. aren't on the market yet. I think he's using a 700C wheel, but PowerTaps are no good above 57 mph.
I have not determined how I'll be able to measure power this year as well.

Larry Lem


Stix

Lightning F-40 built around R-84 frame.
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Speedy
recumbent guru

USA
656 Posts
Posted - 04/18/2012 :  08:24:20  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Matt's cutting edge was indeed fast
What I remember from watching him ride it was the bloody legs
safety tech should be preventing anything with sharp edges from running on the track ... insurance issues etc.
solve that problem and the idea is worth evolving
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Speedbiker
human power supergeek

USA
1996 Posts
Posted - 04/18/2012 :  09:42:37  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Mold the whole body from rubber so it can morph it's shape like a shark to go faster.
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Speedy
recumbent guru

USA
656 Posts
Posted - 04/18/2012 :  11:07:18  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
resin materials for Cutting Edge was vinyl ester
more flexible then epoxy or polyester
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Adam C
recumbent enthusiast

USA
219 Posts
Posted - 04/18/2012 :  14:22:05  Show Profile  Visit Adam C's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Speedbiker

Mold the whole body from rubber so it can morph it's shape like a shark to go faster.

For a while I been thinking what would be the ultimate HPV fairing of the future, say 100 years from now? I think it could be a shape shifting fairing. Have an HPV with a powerful on board computer with advanced weather sensors that can analyze the current atmospheric conditions. Then the fairing can take the shape the best optimizes the aerodynamics based on the atmospheric data. This "super" computer can keep updating the fairing shape to maximize the aerodynamics of the fairing.
Edited by - Adam C on 04/18/2012 14:22:25
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W Hilgenberg
recumbent enthusiast

USA
251 Posts
Posted - 04/18/2012 :  15:36:03  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I personally can't see there to be much more benefit since you would still be largely restricted to the shape of the guy inside. I could see some sort of a benefit if we were allowed to use it to "sail" with sidewinds and such but not sure if that would outweigh the added weight. Would be really cool though. . .
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jnyyz
recumbent enthusiast

Canada
148 Posts
Posted - 04/18/2012 :  20:03:46  Show Profile  Visit jnyyz's Homepage  Reply with Quote
A week and a half until ASME East for U of T and bluenose. The team tells me they've been further behind in the past.....

http://jnyyz.wordpress.com/2012/04/18/a-week-and-a-half-to-go/



http://jnyyz.wordpress.com/
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Larry Lem
human power supergeek

South Sandwich Islands
1971 Posts
Posted - 04/21/2012 :  15:59:05  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I am envious that so many folks have finished their plugs, finished their female molds and are making parts. 2 weeks ago after 4 months of Bondo-work, I determined that my new plug has warped. I've started making a new one (based on the old one). This will add a month to the build process if I work as fast as I can.

Finishing by the end of July to allow for August testing is now in jeopardy.

What a silly hobby!

Larry Lem
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Ben Goodall from Tri-Sled
Starting Member

Australia
48 Posts
Posted - 04/21/2012 :  17:15:20  Show Profile  Visit Ben Goodall from Tri-Sled's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I kinda have to down here Larry as its coming into the Melbourne winter. Easy enough to make parts in the cold but a real pain to make good molds.

Here are my molds for those interested:
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Ben-Goodalls-One-Good-Run-page/230832480324748#!/photo.php?fbid=293019247439404&set=a.293017784106217.69298.230832480324748&type=1&theater
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jnyyz
recumbent enthusiast

Canada
148 Posts
Posted - 04/22/2012 :  12:25:33  Show Profile  Visit jnyyz's Homepage  Reply with Quote
http://jnyyz.wordpress.com/2012/04/22/mechanical-integration/
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Speedbiker
human power supergeek

USA
1996 Posts
Posted - 04/22/2012 :  16:40:17  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Victor's drivetrain looks like.the one in my "tub" streamliner, circa 1998. My heel hit the derailleur.
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Upright Mike
human power expert

USA
3007 Posts
Posted - 04/22/2012 :  22:45:21  Show Profile  Visit Upright Mike's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Anybody know what IUT Annecy has been up too? They did pretty good in 2009 (73+ mph) with the Altair2. Back then there was rumours that their school had several Tour de France riders amongst their alumni, and there was supposed to be an Altair3.

I loved the music of this video (though at one point it was disabled)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ClASxQ25Za0

Another video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gC-FHh4w8b0
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Victor Ragusila
recumbent enthusiast

Canada
337 Posts
Posted - 04/22/2012 :  23:21:57  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
My heel would hit the dérailleur, if i would use all the gears. The bottom deraileur uses only 4 (rough range) and the top will have 5 (fine range). The top one will not be functional for ASME, but i will probably get it to work for IHPVA races and BM
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jnyyz
recumbent enthusiast

Canada
148 Posts
Posted - 04/26/2012 :  13:34:59  Show Profile  Visit jnyyz's Homepage  Reply with Quote
http://jnyyz.wordpress.com/2012/04/26/crunch-time/

http://jnyyz.wordpress.com/
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jnyyz
recumbent enthusiast

Canada
148 Posts
Posted - 04/27/2012 :  21:07:17  Show Profile  Visit jnyyz's Homepage  Reply with Quote
http://jnyyz.wordpress.com/2012/04/27/asme-east-day-one/

http://jnyyz.wordpress.com/
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warren
human power expert

4230 Posts
Posted - 04/28/2012 :  09:17:12  Show Profile  Visit warren's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Hey Jun, I saw that steering linkage earlier and was wondering how it was going to work out. The problem was because the steering was a twisting motion (like a car steering wheel) rather than a side to side motion like a bike. I'm happy they were able to get it converted to tiller, but a more traditional remote steering would work best.
-Warren.
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Patrick Bateman
Starting Member

USA
17 Posts
Posted - 04/28/2012 :  14:16:01  Show Profile  Visit Patrick Bateman's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Larry Lem

I am envious that so many folks have finished their plugs, finished their female molds and are making parts. 2 weeks ago after 4 months of Bondo-work, I determined that my new plug has warped. I've started making a new one (based on the old one). This will add a month to the build process if I work as fast as I can.

Finishing by the end of July to allow for August testing is now in jeopardy.

What a silly hobby!

Larry Lem


Over at bikeforums.net I have a thread on how to build a bike without making a mold...

Basically you take the 3D model, flatten it with Pepakura, print it on a laser printer, then unflatten it by hand.

It's the same build method used to make these:
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Patrick Bateman
Starting Member

USA
17 Posts
Posted - 04/28/2012 :  14:18:11  Show Profile  Visit Patrick Bateman's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by sean costin

Raymond Gage is close to finishing the shell design for my new bike and he has a few pictures to share. The design concept was inspired by Matt Weaver's Cutting edge bike. Perhaps with improved tools, knowledge and experience we make a very fast bike.

I'm steering away from camera vision and looking to explore the realm of the knee pop design. This will involve some tinkering once the shell is complete.

Matt Weaver's knee pops were made with a latex skin on the exterior and a lycra underneath and I plan to use the same.

We are working to make this bike as small as possible. Raymond was able to model my pedal stroke base on video I sent so we could tighten the pedal box as much a possible. I'm using a 60mm crank spindle and 150mm cranks

We are just about at the stage where water jet cut pieces will be made from files generated from this model. This should improve accuracy and speed the building stage. That is unless someone offers to CNC the whole thing.('')

I sincerely thank Raymond for creating a much more involved and expert model than what I had envisioned. I feel very fortunate that he took me up on my request to make this dream a reality. Though the pictures look effortless, I don't think they can convey the software challenges he faced and the multitude of iterations he explored in pursuit of this design.

Cheers Raymond!









http://player.vimeo.com/video/32447643

Did you see the funky cranks that Delft is using this year?



I believe this is how they were able to dramatically reduce their coefficient of drag. If you look at the shell of the VeloX2, the nose is quite a bit smaller, and believe it's due to these cranks. The pic is a screencap from the video they posted on their blog.
Edited by - Patrick Bateman on 04/28/2012 16:10:52
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jnyyz
recumbent enthusiast

Canada
148 Posts
Posted - 04/28/2012 :  15:33:42  Show Profile  Visit jnyyz's Homepage  Reply with Quote
http://jnyyz.wordpress.com/2012/04/28/asme-east-day-2/
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jnyyz
recumbent enthusiast

Canada
148 Posts
Posted - 04/30/2012 :  12:09:07  Show Profile  Visit jnyyz's Homepage  Reply with Quote
http://jnyyz.wordpress.com/2012/04/30/asme-east-day-three/
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Jeff Wills
human power supergeek

USA
1124 Posts
Posted - 04/30/2012 :  20:59:50  Show Profile  Visit Jeff Wills's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Patrick Bateman

http://player.vimeo.com/video/32447643

Did you see the funky cranks that Delft is using this year?



I believe this is how they were able to dramatically reduce their coefficient of drag. If you look at the shell of the VeloX2, the nose is quite a bit smaller, and believe it's due to these cranks. The pic is a screen capture from the video they posted on their blog.


Yes, and it's identical to an older design called a "K-drive": http://tilting.org.za/bok/kdrive.html

I hope they make it work. Earlier versions were mechanically fragile.

__________________
Jeff Wills
All my bikes:
http://home.comcast.net/~jeff_wills/Gallery/index.html
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legslarry
recumbent enthusiast

Christmas Island
280 Posts
Posted - 05/04/2012 :  04:47:52  Show Profile  Visit legslarry's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Jeff Wills
Yes, and it's identical to an older design called a "K-drive": http://tilting.org.za/bok/kdrive.html


And the K-drive was about the fourth time it had been invented. IIRC the original dated back to about 1895.

Dave Larrington
http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk/
=============================
a bit ov a lyv wyr by slof standirds
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sean costin
human power supergeek

Lesotho
1919 Posts
Posted - 05/05/2012 :  05:07:01  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I like the K-drive and it's predecessors but here is the problem with it in my design: It's much wider and would make my bike less efficient.

My bike and most streamliners are taller than they are wide, and since I am choosing a relatively upright body position, the reduction in vertical pedal movement is not a significant gain because I still need to eventually enclose a 25" vertical span. I've chosen 155mm cranks to reduce the pedal height so I can see over my toes. By reducing with width at my pedal box to 13.5" through the use of a 60 mm bb spindle, the shell can be significantly narrowed from the sides. The nose can be closer to my feet. The overall length of the bike can be reduced and the skin friction will be less.

Due to the long area at the top of the bike that has little rise, there is concern about separation. Add in the issues of the knee pops and the head bubble and there are some real unknowns. This bike is more complex to design than most and will require a high level of craftsmanship to pull it off effectively.

Even with linear and K-Drives, knees must bend significantly so that you can effectively work the muscles you rely on to make power. While the foot movements of these drives are significantly less, the knees don't bend too much less.

Delft is approaching their problems differently and has found justification for it's use. I'd consider using it too if It wasn't so wide. They are taking a few inches off the top of their pedal box I'm taking a few inches off the sides. Because the pedal box is an upright rectangular shape when viewed from the front, An equal reduction along the sides reduces the frontal area more. This is an oversimplification, but true.
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sean costin
human power supergeek

Lesotho
1919 Posts
Posted - 05/13/2012 :  18:16:29  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
New Nocom Streamliner images!
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