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n/a
deleted

2373 Posts

Posted - 02/18/2012 :  19:40:27  Show Profile  Reply with Quote

I got all my old and new remote parts together today. Milled my balsa and almost ready to glue and bag it on the team Ti-Boy bike.

This is my high tech method of figuring out the handlebar pivot.
Aerospace tools such duct tape, ruler and pencil are required.

- Tape a ruler to the fork clamp, support it with a small tube, tape it in place with duct tape.
- Sit on the bike, spin the pedals, place the handlebar on the ruler and extend the arms until the handlebar nearly touches the legs.
- Mark the ruler with pencil to determine handlebar pivot point.
- Make a carboard template to use as a guide for cutting a balsa shape for the remote post.

Edited by - n/a on 02/18/2012 19:41:32

n/a
deleted

2373 Posts

Posted - 02/18/2012 :  20:48:49  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
My high tech method of gluing the balsa remote post on the carbon frame sleeve.

- Tape a straight dowel rod in the center of the fork clamp and the center of the rear wheel for a visual guide.
- Add a few dabs of JB weld to the bottom of the balsa post, place it on the carbon sleeve and line it up with the wooden horizontal guide clamped to the frame and the dowel rod on top.

The glue sets in 4 minutes and cures overnight. Next, some layers of carbon fiber will be vacuum bagged over the balsa and carbon sleeve to make a light weight remote post.

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warren
human power expert

USA
6090 Posts

Posted - 02/19/2012 :  06:13:27  Show Profile  Visit warren's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Looks like it's coming along nicely. Are you going to make it removable?
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n/a
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2373 Posts

Posted - 02/19/2012 :  07:12:44  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by warren

Looks like it's coming along nicely. Are you going to make it removable?



Got any suggestions for making it removable?

Maybe a few dabs of 5 minute epoxy with 4 small set screws tapped into the frame.
2 top and 2 bottom. If I need to take it off the frame, remove the screws and lightly heat the carbon sleeve.

Think the small screws and epoxy dabs will do the trick?

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Speedbiker
human power expert

USA
3744 Posts

Posted - 02/19/2012 :  08:48:04  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hacksaw? I see no reason for taking it off once it's on. You can always swap the narrow bars for a short tiller and wider bars if you want more relaxed handling.
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warren
human power expert

USA
6090 Posts

Posted - 02/19/2012 :  10:24:48  Show Profile  Visit warren's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Yes I think that should hold it on in nicely. You can always add more if it doesn't feel solid. The screws will give you something good to hang stuff from.
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n/a
deleted

2373 Posts

Posted - 02/20/2012 :  08:44:53  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
While working on the remote I noticed that the rear drop outs on the bike having too much play when spinning on a trainer. Both dropouts had a .5" opening. To avoid rear wheel shift I milled my own rear dropouts with tighter tolerance. Before drilling the left dropout hole I clamped both wheels to a straight edge to determine the drill mark.

Both wheels are now positioned in center of the front and rear splitters. Tracking on the bike should be excellent with properly aligned wheels and no dropout play.





Time to start the carbon fiber remote post layup.

Edited by - n/a on 02/20/2012 08:46:02
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n/a
deleted

2373 Posts

Posted - 02/20/2012 :  11:54:51  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I placed some wet strips of 2" & 3" 9oz. carbon tape over the remote post. To keep the wet strips in place I wrapped some carbon tow around the balsa post. This was put in a vacuum bag with the pressure set very high to compress the fibers and remove excess resin. I am using 4 to1 epoxy resin. Under a couple lights it should be ready to smooth sand in 4 hours.


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Speedbiker
human power expert

USA
3744 Posts

Posted - 02/20/2012 :  17:22:36  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Wow, a half inch dropout slot. Is that additional platr on the outside an AA special?
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n/a
deleted

2373 Posts

Posted - 02/20/2012 :  20:25:59  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Speedbiker

Wow, a half inch dropout slot. Is that additional platr on the outside an AA special?



The plate is is one of the pieces of the tailfiaring mount.
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n/a
deleted

2373 Posts

Posted - 02/21/2012 :  19:21:25  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
My first attempt with the remote post got canned. A straight remote post is better than curved.

I hacksawed my old remote post for a mock up to figure out placement of the hands behind the knees. My first attempt had too many layers of carbon fiber, All I need is 3 layers to make it plenty strong. Need to drill a thru hole in the balsa before vacuum bagging so I can route cable housing inside the post.

It's all trial and error to get it dialed in.

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n/a
deleted

2373 Posts

Posted - 02/27/2012 :  09:24:41  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
My latest attempt at the bolt on remote post was rather heavy. I have been using too many layers of 10.9 oz and way too much bonding compound. My most recent fabrication had no internal opening for cable housing. I want to use the housing hole that was already drilled in the frame instead of drilling another hole.

I am now using a ziploc bag which wraps the carbon fiber around the balsa post with no surface irregularities. Only 3 layers of 5.7 oz needed to make a very strong and light piece. I originally used 6 layer of 10.9 oz. Time to bag a new sleeve on the frame. Only 2 layers of 10.9 oz needed instead of 6.

This time I will bond the post and sleeve together with a minimal amount of bonding compound.To secure both pieces I will bag a layer of 10.9 oz. over the top of the post and sleeve which should be plenty strong for a bolt on remote post.




Edited by - n/a on 02/27/2012 09:28:57
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n/a
deleted

2373 Posts

Posted - 02/27/2012 :  13:16:00  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
This is my (MMBS) Mickey Mouse Bake Shop for making recumbent parts that do not exist.

Only 2 hours next to a 60W bulb to cure a small piece. One cool thing about Ziploc bag for small parts is I can easily reshape the bag to conform to the object by opening the seal and closing it while the pump is running. At present I am bagging a layer to the inside of the balsa remote post.


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n/a
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2373 Posts

Posted - 02/29/2012 :  11:48:23  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
After several attempts to bag a thin carbon sleeve on the frame I gave up on that method. Too difficult to vacuum bag directly on the frame without surface distortion. I used a previously bagged heavy sleeve as a form to press 2 layers of carbon fiber into the contour of the frame with peel ply as a bleeder cloth. After 4 hours I removed the electrical tape. placed the sleeve on the frame and bonded the remote post with a few dabs of PC-7.

Last night I vacuum bagged a layer of 2" wide carbon tape with another of 4" tape ont top to secure the post and sleeve. Afterwards a light coat of epoxy resin was wiped on the surface to fill in any voids from the fabric texture.

This morning I lightly sanded the surface with adhesive backed 150 grit on a piece of zote foam. The piece is very light compared to earlier attempts.

Next I will make bearing sleeve for the handlebar to fit on top of the post.




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Larry Lem
human power expert

South Sandwich Islands
2523 Posts

Posted - 02/29/2012 :  13:25:06  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
What are the reasons for making remote steering?
Is the tiller otherwise too long and the bars need to swing too wide when making sharp turns? That's not too often, so there must be other reasons.
I've never used a remote steerer so am unaware of the subtle reasons. If I knew the benefit, I might want to experiment in this area as well.

Larry Lem
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n/a
deleted

2373 Posts

Posted - 02/29/2012 :  15:34:44  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Larry,
I am going with remote to slow the steering down. Never felt comfortable with a narrow handlebar grip until I used a remote set up. Too twitchy for my nerves.

FWIW, I am able to easily ride a NoCom with one hand using remote. Just something that works best for me with this particular bike design.


quote:
Originally posted by Larry Lem

What are the reasons for making remote steering?
Is the tiller otherwise too long and the bars need to swing too wide when making sharp turns? That's not too often, so there must be other reasons.
I've never used a remote steerer so am unaware of the subtle reasons. If I knew the benefit, I might want to experiment in this area as well.

Larry Lem

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Larry Lem
human power expert

South Sandwich Islands
2523 Posts

Posted - 02/29/2012 :  18:35:29  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hey, that's an interesting idea! I've tried holding my hands really close together like Randy (overlapping them), but feel that I lack control. What ratio will you implement?

Thanks

Larry Lem
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n/a
deleted

2373 Posts

Posted - 02/29/2012 :  20:02:59  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Larry,
Almost 1 to 1 ratio, very minimal angle. Just a bit of leverage by placing the handlebar rod bearing 4 mm to the left of the center line.

You might have to experiment with your ratio to know what will work best for your bike. You will find out as soon as you take a test ride.

quote:
Originally posted by Larry Lem

Hey, that's an interesting idea! I've tried holding my hands really close together like Randy (overlapping them), but feel that I lack control. What ratio will you implement?

Thanks

Larry Lem

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randy
recumbent guru

723 Posts

Posted - 03/01/2012 :  10:55:30  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
If one had the guts to move the Nocom's headtube up to 80 degrees, or so, I think it would be a super-handling machine. My lowracer from 2002 had a slack headtube with a no-rake fork and I had to keep my hands farther apart to control it. The difference between it and my Fogcom (and every bike after) were night and day-- so much more relaxing to ride at any speed.
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n/a
deleted

2373 Posts

Posted - 03/02/2012 :  12:28:22  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Randy
Probably will wait to build from scratch to do a different head tube angle. Totally agree with your comment. I'd end up making the NoCom heavier to change the angle it so will leave as is for now. Been milling new aluminum pieces with the router table and lathe to make the remote assembly nearly as light as the VK tiller clamp and handlebar. Its going to be a very cool setup.



quote:
Originally posted by randy

If one had the guts to move the Nocom's headtube up to 80 degrees, or so, I think it would be a super-handling machine. My lowracer from 2002 had a slack headtube with a no-rake fork and I had to keep my hands farther apart to control it. The difference between it and my Fogcom (and every bike after) were night and day-- so much more relaxing to ride at any speed.

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n/a
deleted

2373 Posts

Posted - 03/02/2012 :  18:40:19  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I discovered a wheel alignment trick for NoComs with bolt on rear drop outs. Wheel alignment with my recently milled dropouts was OK but not perfect. When I clamped a metal straight edge to the wheels I noticed the front of the rear wheel was not contacting the straight edge. It was off by 3mm.

To get proper wheel tracking I opened up the dropout slot, aligned the wheels with the straight edge and frame, tightened the skewer and bonded the end cap to the dropout. With the end cap bonded in place I had the perfect drilling template to mill a new dropout with a precise wheel fit.

Both wheels are now aligned and centered in the frame. Tracking will be excellent on this bike.




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n/a
deleted

2373 Posts

Posted - 03/02/2012 :  23:22:03  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The bearing sleeve needs a carbon fiber spline to fit in the center of the remote post. A piece of scrap balsa was drilled to make a form. The aluminum sleeve had been wrapped in fiberglass earlier

Before wrapping carbon fiber and peel ply around the sleeve I sealed off the ends to prevent epoxy bleeding in with clamp pressure. The sleeve was placed in the form and will remain clamped overnight.


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sean costin
human power supergeek

Lesotho
1999 Posts

Posted - 03/03/2012 :  04:42:12  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Alan,

FWIW, I made some rear dropouts for my Nocom for my fixed gear hour record attempt. I've wanted to go back to them and mount a derailleur hanger off them to switch permanently. It made it so much easier to remove the rear wheel and get the alignment right. I'm always having to remove the rear wheel to get the bike in my truck.

You could add some lawyer tabs if you felt it necessary.
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n/a
deleted

2373 Posts

Posted - 03/03/2012 :  09:17:52  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Sean,
I noticed a misaligned rear wheel when I raised the straight edge. Initially, on ground level it looked OK but raising the straight edge up a few inches revealed a flaw in the dropout. It took a total of 4 left dropouts to get the alignment right. No need for lawyer tabs with the most recent dropout fit.

With the template, it only took 45 minutes to cut, shape, drill, tap and smooth the surface compared to 4 hours of monkeying around.



quote:
Originally posted by sean costin

Alan,

FWIW, I made some rear dropouts for my Nocom for my fixed gear hour record attempt. I've wanted to go back to them and mount a derailleur hanger off them to switch permanently. It made it so much easier to remove the rear wheel and get the alignment right. I'm always having to remove the rear wheel to get the bike in my truck.

You could add some lawyer tabs if you felt it necessary.

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n/a
deleted

2373 Posts

Posted - 03/07/2012 :  09:11:49  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Almost had the remote post ready to go on the bike until I put a mock up handlebar in the bearing cylinder. No brake lever clearance for turning. The post should have been set lower on the frame sleeve. The bearing cylinder cannot be flush with the top. I tried grinding some material out of the post for clearance but it looked like crap.

I am now building another one from scratch that will have proper clearance for the brake levers.


Edited by - n/a on 03/07/2012 09:12:34
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warren
human power expert

USA
6090 Posts

Posted - 03/07/2012 :  09:49:20  Show Profile  Visit warren's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Hi AA,

Or you could just adjust the angle of the clamp-on bar-ends back a bit...

-Warren.
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