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sean costin
human power supergeek

Lesotho
1919 Posts

Posted - 02/26/2012 : 09:41:57

I'm experiencing pain the balls of my feet. My cushioned insoles in my cleats wear down to nothing at the ball of my foot and on longer rides I get numbness and a severe burning feeling. Anyone else with this issue? solutions?

Sean

harv
recumbent enthusiast

317 Posts

Posted - 02/26/2012 : 09:56:13

Most of my foot pain went away after I used the dr scholl machine and bought the recommended style insert. I thought they were a bit short, but they do work. I have my cleats set closer to the front rather then towards the heel. YMMV

Edited by - harv on 02/26/2012 09:57:46

Speedy
recumbent guru

USA
656 Posts

Posted - 02/26/2012 : 11:36:43

Absolutely a problem for me
easily spent 5k on foot doctors, custom shoes and inserts
seems the higher the crank the worse it is
shoes should be wide enough there is slight room on the sides
generally loose enough to fly off when kicking a soccer ball
higher RPM with less pressure on the pedals seemed to help

this could be a circulation issue
exercise is important for me as diabetes is a family trait and my blood results are always close to needing medication

Speedbiker
human power supergeek

USA
1996 Posts

Posted - 02/26/2012 : 16:58:37

Sean, your unique pedal style (Benard Hinault pointed toe) might contribute. Plus the fact that you pedal very hard, fewer days a week than most, might not be allowing your feet to adapt. It is a little suprising considering your very high rpm. Are your cleats all thr way back like so many of us have done to aleviate foot pain?

tim_turner
recumbent enthusiast

USA
188 Posts

Posted - 02/26/2012 : 18:20:26

I've always had a slight lingering subtle problem with that same area. Then I started running more. It's really tender!
I'm moving to the larger KEO blade pedal. Mostly I find the soft soles on my old Sidi mnt bike shoes with the tiny SPD's are not that great.
I'd say that my specialized carbon soles with the old KEOs are pretty close. The specialized insole has a raised area there that is suppose to help spread your bones apart.

I am slightly hoping that some of the load bearing running will eventually help that area... probably not though :)

T

Dreamer
recumbent guru

USA
541 Posts

Posted - 02/26/2012 : 19:28:07

Sean,

If the pain is directly under the head of your 2nd, 3rd, or 4th metatarsal it could just be a symptom of fallen lateral arches, which is what happened to me when I was running. I wear orthotics now but you might get by with cork insoles that take the pressure off the head of the fallen metatarsuls. If you can find a thick felt insole (I used 1/4" but that might not fit in your riding shoe) cut out the area under the sore spot and ride. if the pain goes away you have the problem solved. The felt will compress which may allow the pain to return after a few days but if the pad works, replace the felt with a cork insole.
It is my opinion that if that doesn't work the best option is to see a foot doctor who is either a runner or a cyclist. They are more likely to understand and correctly diagnose your injury.

Don

Speedbiker
human power supergeek

USA
1996 Posts

Posted - 02/26/2012 : 19:45:58

Great point! Going to a nonrunning, nonriding foot doc is a complete waste. I had numb heals and they sent me to $7000 of foot therapy for plantar faciatis, of which numb heals is not a syptom(sp?). My massage therapist treated me for tarsal tunnel syndrome (thanks to misdiagnosis.com) and the numbness was eliminated.

Larry Lem
human power supergeek

South Sandwich Islands
1971 Posts

Posted - 02/26/2012 : 21:07:50

Handcycle

Larry Lem

Gugi100
New Member

Netherlands
78 Posts

Posted - 02/27/2012 : 01:44:16

I had my insoles custom made. That was helpful. I also noticed that in periods of intensive cycling a powerwalk of 30 minutes a day takes tension of your muscles/tendons. It is very good to use your feet not only for cycling but also for their original purpose, walking.

Gr GJ

sean costin
human power supergeek

Lesotho
1919 Posts

Posted - 02/27/2012 : 19:52:29

Thanks for the advise. Some good starting points. I have wide feet and too much tightening of the straps causes pain. I should have bought the wider Sidi Genius, but they didn't feel right. I'll loosen the cleats and see if that reduces numbness.

The pain is definitely originating at the ball which I think is the first metatarsal. Pressure is very concentrated there and I notice that after a while the foam is absolutely crushed in this area. I've put in silicone pads under the insoles that they sell for ladies high heel shoes, but it is only a little better. I have my cleats as far forward as the adjusters allow. Perhaps I can move them and see if there is a difference.

I'll try the Dr. Scholls machine at the Walgreens. I've been afraid to step on it and pick up a fungus.

I've switched to 155 cranks as of late and the issue seems a little less pronounced. Oddly, I'm making more power and I'm baffled by this. It must be a result of the higher rpm.

Sean

Speedbiker
human power supergeek

USA
1996 Posts

Posted - 02/27/2012 : 21:38:23

Moving your cleats toward the heal spreads the load of the shoe. I bet that helps, some. Remember to pad around the area of greatest pressure to relieve that pressure. Higher rpm should help. Your rpm was already high. It must be really high with 155s.

tim_turner
recumbent enthusiast

USA
188 Posts

Posted - 02/27/2012 : 21:47:00

Specialized sells their body-geo whater insoles separately, btw. might check them out, since they're specific for foot pain in that area caused by cycling.

T

tom porter
recumbent enthusiast

154 Posts

Posted - 02/28/2012 : 07:58:27

I had a bout of hot foot and a numb feeling in the balls of my feet about 15 years ago. Went to 155mm cranks and the spinning seem to help. I still get problems now and then, decided crank length didn't make any difference. When the problem occurs I think it's from gear mashing so now I get in a smaller inch gear and concentrate on peddling circles. It also means its time to get off the bike and take a break.

O---o

harv
recumbent enthusiast

317 Posts

Posted - 02/28/2012 : 11:53:00

The Dr Scholls come with a money back warranty. No work, no cost. There will probably be a dispenser of disinfectant wipes by the machine. You keep your socks on.

Dreamer
recumbent guru

USA
541 Posts

Posted - 02/28/2012 : 19:38:36

quote:
I've switched to 155 cranks as of late and the issue seems a little less pronounced. Oddly, I'm making more power

Sean,

Too's research supports this observation. He only tested 4 sizes of cranks but reported optimum recumbent power output with the smaller cranks. I've mostly packed all my bookcase but the article was printed in the IHPVA archive volumes. The gaps between the sizes Too tested were large which left me skeptical but he found maximum power output for recumbent riders with the 110 or 120 (?) cranks. Other research suggests that 165 is the optimum crank size for recumbent riders. If I'm remembering correctly, Too skipped from 110/120 to 180 so he didn't research the 155 and 165 sizes. Sorry I can't document either study at this time.

Don

Don

sean costin
human power supergeek

Lesotho
1919 Posts

Posted - 03/06/2012 : 19:31:18

I went to my local Walgreens and used their Dr. Scholls pressure mapping device. It was really cool. It showed a nice colored map of the pressure on my feet and diagnosed that I had a low arch and high pressure points. They recommended one of the 15 or so different styles they had available. I bought it for about $50.00 and it has a money back guarantee. This is good because they are going right back to them.

The ball part of my foot only had only a 1/16'of padding and it had a protrusion that was supposed to make contact under my arch to take pressure off the ball. This did nothing but move the pain. They had very thick heels, which do me no good since there is no pressure there. I was only able ride with them for 30 minutes.

I think I will move my cleats back a little. The pain seems less now that I went to 150 cranks and the numbness is liveable.

Sean

Edited by - sean costin on 03/08/2012 19:54:41

tim_turner
recumbent enthusiast

USA
188 Posts

Posted - 03/07/2012 : 07:51:49

http://www.specialized.com/us/en/bc/SBCEqProduct.jsp?spid=57994

might be worth trying, too...

T

CincyRay
Starting Member

USA
5 Posts

Posted - 03/07/2012 : 12:33:21

This did the trick for me slipped under the regular sole insert for my SIDI shoes. Gives a stiff carbon sole like feel that seems to spread out the pressure contact more across the ball of the foot when using eggbeater pedals. Took a few rides to get used to them, but been using them for all my rides now for 2 years. Hard to compare foot problems but mine was like a bruising sensation in the ball of the foot after riding too aggressively with a crappy pedal stroke. The advise I was given was to order a foot size larger to make sure the pedal contact was under the insert which is 3/4 length which is nice so your toes don't get jammed up with less room.

Link: http://www.footsmart.com/p-spenco-orthotic-arch-supports-10404.aspx

Ray

britCpower
recumbent enthusiast

USA
247 Posts

Posted - 03/07/2012 : 19:40:31

I had it happen to me for the first time in a double century this weekend. Gearing down and scrunching my toes seemed to help. I have never had it happen in my Sidi shoes with the Specialized Body Geometry insoles.

my blog
http://britcpower.wordpress.com/

jimincolorado
Starting Member

USA
24 Posts

Posted - 03/08/2012 : 11:29:28

Have you tried a professional cleat fitting? It worked a charm for me and I had it done on a DF. Resolved foot,knee and hip issues.

Jim

sean costin
human power supergeek

Lesotho
1919 Posts

Posted - 04/16/2012 : 17:29:40

UPDATE
I made a number of changes and each of them improved the pain at the ball of my foot. I cannot say which had the most impact. I think each had a similar effect.

1. shorter cranks 150's
2. Narrower BB ( this changed the angle of my leg and put outer part of my foot into play
3. Moved my speedplay pedals from the furthest most forward to the furthest most back on the cleat adjustment.

Thom Ollinger recently forwarded me this excellent article. There are some good ideas I will continue to pursue.

http://www.stevehoggbikefitting.com/blog/2011/04/power-to-the-pedal-cleat-position/

jjackstone
recumbent enthusiast

USA
119 Posts

Posted - 04/16/2012 : 20:12:51

Sean,
Speedplay also makes a longer cleat for some of their models if you need to go back further still.
JJ

calfeenated
recumbent enthusiast

205 Posts

Posted - 04/16/2012 : 20:24:03

Thanks Sean for this thread, Ever since I switched to riding all recumbent my knees and the balls of my feet have experienced a large amount of pain, I changed the crank length from 172.5 to 165's and that has helped but not completely, I also noticed how much my shoes with speedplay cleats flexed so I took advantage of the fact that they were self destructing and went to some heat moldable shoes with super stiff carbon soles, I also moved the cleats as far back as possible and now I'm finally starting to feel no pain when riding, the difference in the shoes was remarkable. The shoes feel like an extension of my feet with no hot spots and I actually find that I don't need as much pressure by the straps to get a nice fit, it improves circulation in my feet and they don't get numb like before.

Mark.

steve
Starting Member

Canada
35 Posts

Posted - 04/17/2012 : 12:23:08

Thanks, Sean for that link on cleat position.
Talking to other riders, we all seem to suffer bad 'hot foot' on the longer rides. After Sebring, it took weeks for the feeling to come back to one of my toes.

You mention shorter cranks. I used the crank length calculator on this site
http://www.recumbents.com/wisil/misc/crank_angle.asp
It came back with 165mm, which is what I use, I'm 6'5".( or 5'17").
The farther out my boom goes, the higher the BB gets. I'm working on getting that lower to see if it will help.

In 2009, I moved the cleats to the arch aera on a cheaper pair of shoes. The soles were not stiff enough, and I stretched the tendon running through the arch. ( the plantar, I think?) It felt like a charlie horse through the bottom of the foot. That wasn't a good day.

Edited by - steve on 04/17/2012 12:24:46

sean costin
human power supergeek

Lesotho
1919 Posts

Posted - 04/17/2012 : 18:17:47

Mark, what brand of shoe is this?

quote:
[i] I took advantage of the fact that they were self destructing and went to some heat moldable shoes with super stiff carbon soles, I also moved the cleats as far back as possible and now I'm finally starting to feel no pain when riding, the difference in the shoes was remarkable. The shoes feel like an extension of my feet with no hot spots and I actually find that I don't need as much pressure by the straps to get a nice fit, it improves circulation in my feet and they don't get numb like before.

Mark.

steve
Starting Member

Canada
35 Posts

Posted - 04/19/2012 : 04:20:33

The one shoe I know of thats heat moldable is Bont.

http://bont.com/cycling/

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