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LongJohn
recumbent guru

Netherlands
532 Posts
Posted - 05/23/2012 :  09:51:59  Show Profile  Visit LongJohn's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Aure,

Please check your email.

Thomas
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britCpower
recumbent enthusiast

USA
247 Posts
Posted - 05/23/2012 :  11:49:09  Show Profile  Visit britCpower's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I applaud the innovation of the shoe covers and have often thought about the aero drag inflicted by my size 12 plates of meat flapping around in the breeze. It appears to me that the only purpose that those covers have is to direct air round the riders body (feet) and not to attach the riders foot to the cranks and as such do not meet the spirit of the unfaired class.

If these are not just covers but actually the pedals themselves I believe we are into a much less clear area and they should probably be allowed.

One could argue that an aero helmet or the wide tubes of a NOCOM also deflect air from the riders body but they also have an intrinsic function of either being a structural member or protecting the riders head.

I dont think we want to stiffle innovation in the unfaired class as it isnt just about human performance, otherwise we would be in the UCI situation of fixing the exact bicycle layout in time forever, but on the other hand it is clear that you would need to produce a lot less watts to push Aures wonderful sleek creation than some Bacchetta 700c stick bike. I dont envy the WRRA making and enforcing the rules for this issue.

my blog
http://britcpower.wordpress.com/
Edited by - britCpower on 05/23/2012 11:52:55
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sean costin
human power supergeek

Lesotho
1918 Posts
Posted - 05/24/2012 :  09:52:06  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Aure,

a decision has been made regarding your pedals. The committee decided that the pedals do not comply to the unfaired classification. I will summarize the decision later since I am at work and wanted to give you as much time to make alternate plans. Perhaps another board member can relay this information to Aure's email.

Good luck

Sean
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Speedbiker
human power supergeek

USA
1995 Posts
Posted - 05/24/2012 :  10:53:29  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Regardless of any decision, I applaud Aure's attempts to push the boundries. I have some ideas of my own that might not pass muster.
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Upright Mike
human power expert

USA
3007 Posts
Posted - 05/24/2012 :  20:18:30  Show Profile  Visit Upright Mike's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Can Aurélien Bonneteau on his recumbent bicycle pass some of the most legendary UCI One Hour marks of Chris Boardman, Tony Rominger and Miquel Indurain? He has already exceeded Francesco Moser's best marks (both his 1984 world record and his relatively unknown further 1994 UCI Veteran's record). Aurélien has already exceeded the first of Graeme Obree's (The Flying Scotsman's) legendary two world records. Can he better his 2nd record? Aurélien Bonneteau will be making his attempt at the same Velodrome du Lac, Bordeaux where some of these legendary marks above took place. The track record is held by Rominger during his world record, now 2nd on the all-time UCI absolute best performance list.

Something to look over before Auré's attempt today! ...

Best Stock One Hours - UCI and Recumbent
Unofficial List created by me (Mike)...

Go Auré!


Part 2...
Edited by - Upright Mike on 05/24/2012 20:54:04
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Kragasaur
recumbent enthusiast

100 Posts
Posted - 05/24/2012 :  20:24:51  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Aure,
Best of luck! We are all cheering for you!
Eric
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Auré
Starting Member

France
48 Posts
Posted - 05/24/2012 :  23:05:25  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
@ Sean and WRRA Committe

About my pedals, please take enought time to keep away the passion, to be able to make a decision more with head than the heart.

Like I allready say, I thought myself a lot of time on this point.
At the beginning I wasn't so sur, but now for me it's really clear.
Until pedals and shoes are necessary elements to cycling on recumbent, and the shape of these elements free in the limits of the WRRA rules. I consider ( in my material configuration), that until the pedals are not bigger than shoes, and that the pedal is in his natural function, namely to receive the shoes efforts, then it is still unfaired recumbent. This is just the natural evolution of the materials, like it was allready the case for example, disc wheels, profiled frame ( I think especially in NoCom ),profiled helmet etc...

An other way to see that my recumbent is not a Tail or Nose Faired Recumbent,is to see pictures of Tail or Nose Faired Recumbent ! On theses you can see big fairing surrounding the rider by the front or the rear. This is really not the case for me.

Now for me, it's time to focus seriously on the attempt.

Thanks to all for sustaining me
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randy
recumbent guru

685 Posts
Posted - 05/25/2012 :  08:27:50  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
56.597kph. Congrats on the new record.
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TVM
recumbent enthusiast

USA
164 Posts
Posted - 05/25/2012 :  08:47:28  Show Profile  Visit TVM's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Could the pedal fairing be classified as a SPLITTER?

CONGRATULATIONS!!!!

JM
Edited by - TVM on 05/25/2012 08:47:46
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Zyzio
recumbent enthusiast

USA
120 Posts
Posted - 05/25/2012 :  09:39:59  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Congratulations Aure!!

PeterB
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Speedbiker
human power supergeek

USA
1995 Posts
Posted - 05/25/2012 :  09:56:28  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Amazing! A few years ago we hardly dreamt such speeds were possible.
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Upright Mike
human power expert

USA
3007 Posts
Posted - 05/25/2012 :  10:09:00  Show Profile  Visit Upright Mike's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Félicitations Auré! It has taken 78 years, 11 months, and 12 days, but once again a RECUMBENT BICYCLE is faster than an UCI BICYCLE in the ONE-HOUR. And once again it is a Frenchman who has done it!
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Upright Mike
human power expert

USA
3007 Posts
Posted - 05/25/2012 :  10:19:50  Show Profile  Visit Upright Mike's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Comparing how Aurélien Bonneteau's best one hour marks compare to the UCI record marks. He has just done better than Chris Boardman's absolute UCI mark today, May 25, 2012.
Edited by - Upright Mike on 05/25/2012 10:32:22
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Larry Lem
human power supergeek

South Sandwich Islands
1971 Posts
Posted - 05/25/2012 :  10:54:15  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
What type of pedals were used?

Larry Lem
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Gugi100
New Member

Netherlands
78 Posts
Posted - 05/25/2012 :  11:17:06  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Congratulations!

I hope you didnot need the feetfairing. If so it would be a pitty.

Gr GJ
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Upright Mike
human power expert

USA
3007 Posts
Posted - 05/25/2012 :  13:14:54  Show Profile  Visit Upright Mike's Homepage  Reply with Quote
It appeared that he did use the foot fairings... but, an outstanding achievement and speed/distance.!!

From Aure's Hour record page on Facebook....
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Adam C
recumbent enthusiast

USA
219 Posts
Posted - 05/25/2012 :  13:38:56  Show Profile  Visit Adam C's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Someone please tell me there is video of this record run?!
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stgo
Starting Member

10 Posts
Posted - 05/25/2012 :  13:57:04  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Adam C

Someone please tell me there is video of this record run?!


There is: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NoKwV6GHtAI

Kind regards
Stefan
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mhelander
recumbent enthusiast

Finland
257 Posts
Posted - 05/25/2012 :  15:03:01  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Great record Aurélien ! You set the bar for rest of us reach at... if ever.

Cheers,
-Mika

MetaPhysic 700c @ 2011, M5 CrMo Lowracer @ 2010
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sean costin
human power supergeek

Lesotho
1918 Posts
Posted - 05/25/2012 :  20:27:37  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Congratulations Auré for reaching your goal and doing it your way. That was an epic performance.

Sean
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purplepeopledesign
recumbent guru

Canada
568 Posts
Posted - 05/25/2012 :  22:21:15  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
So as I understand it, the WRRA will not sanction the use of the shaped pedals. The question then, is: How is this time considered official?

:)ensen

Those who claim to be making history are often the same ones repeating it.

Video of my trike
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MdSLRD_2vzc
Photos of my trike
http://www.flickr.com/photos/purplepeople/
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sean costin
human power supergeek

Lesotho
1918 Posts
Posted - 05/26/2012 :  06:47:43  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Yesterday was momentous for fans of recumbents. Most of us can hardly even reach the speed that Auré held for one hour. Even some of the greatest recumbent cyclists we have had racing for WRRA records had only hoped to reach Chris Boardman's UCI* mark on a fully tail faired bike. He has made us all very proud for his determination and his skill at making his dream become a reality. Auré is simply amazing.

I am also proud that the WRRA which I co- founded to serve my fellow racers has resulted in such amazing progress and I am grateful to everyone who believed in the idea and have worked to promote it, share it and maintain it's credibility. If the organization is not recognized and respected it's value is minimal.

The rules for the unfaired classification are relatively simple. It took many hours of collective refinement and correspondence to get them to where they are. I don't believe there are any wasted words.

They provide guidance in principle without being too specific on how something is to be done so as not to dictate design any more than necessary.

In the case of Auré, the committee had the opportunity to express a determination on his design before his attempt. I do not have any evidence yet, but from the picture posted, I see the foot fairing pedals, so lets assume that he used them. When a record is approved, we look at video, timing, pictures of the bike rider and helmet and verify that the documentation worksheet is accurately filled out and we vote for approval. Assuming that all the required information is provided, the record can be approved by vote, Assuming no one changes their mind before the vote, this will be approved as a Tail or Nose-Faired recumbent record.

Auré is challenging our determination and he is well within his rights to do so. In our determination we looked carefully at his statements, photo and interpreted them to the rules to see if there was justification. Our job on the committee is not to advise or direct others, only to decide if what we see meets the rules of a classification. We would never use criteria such as "does it look like other bikes in the classification" We apply the rules EXACTLY as they are written.
Here are the rules again:

The vehicle construction shall be such that its shape does not overtly direct airflow around the rider's body, nor attempt to reattach the airflow behind the rider by use of tail fairing devices. The only exception being the use of an aerodynamic shaped helmet. The vehicle can incorporate aerodynamic
fairings to make its structure and components more aerodynamic. Allowed fairings are: rotating wheel covers and splitter plates.


Here is the logic of my vote:

1. Does the pedal design overtly direct airflow around the rider's body: Yes. The pedal has been enlarged and shaped to OVERTLY direct airflow around the riders' body. The foot is part of the riders body.

2. Enlarging the pedal to be a fairing is not covered by exception. There is just one exception: The only exception being the use of an aerodynamic shaped helmet. We did not write -An example of an exception, or a typical or possible exception. We were very specific.

3. Can the pedal be determined allowable under this directive of the classification?

The vehicle can incorporate aerodynamic
fairings to make its structure and components more aerodynamic.

No. The pedal component design does not itself make the pedal more aerodynamic, it is an attempt to overtly direct the airflow to make the shoe/foot more aerodynnamic.

4. Does this creation meet this requirement: Allowed fairings are: rotating wheel covers and splitter plates.

No.


I capitalized the word overt above. This is because this word has significant meaning to the rule. It was added to emphasize the spirit of the rule.

In my email response to Auré I said that a steering stem that covers the hands would also fail this standard, because it overtly directs airflow around the body.

Now I take off my Commissioner's hat and put on my designer's hat.

What can be done to make this area of the bike more aerodynamic? I can only answer to my interpretation of the rules and I have one vote.

1. Splitter is an allowed "fairing". There are no current restrictions on number or placement. A splitter is a flat plate design which reduces drag by reducing vorticies behind an object.

2. I believe that one could make a solid argument that a shoe is a component. The rules state that a component can be made more aerodynamic. If the shoe was designed to be more aerodynamic, yet not OVERTLY directing airflow around the riders body, then there is a case for it. So can one design a more aerodynamic shoe. We already choose shoes or consolidate them with covers so that they are more aerodynamic.

If the pedal and shoe were consolidated into one component perhaps more aerodynamic gains can be made.


You may be saying to yourself, What's difference in Auré case? The difference is that the modification of the pedal was not made to make the pedal more aerodynamic as the rules allow. It was made to make a different object -the shoe/foot more aerodynamic. The pedal which in this case is a separate entity does not by function house the foot. If that component (the shoe) by function must cover the body, then it may by itself be made aerodynamic according to my interpretation. The question then becomes is the fairing of the foot incidental or overtly fairing the rider. This would be for the committee to decide.

I know this may all seem like splitting hairs to many people, but it becomes truly significant to us as new items are analyzed for conformance to the standard and this is used a precedent.

So as I interpret the rules, there is the possibility of aerodynamic shoes, but you cannot make more aerodynamic pedals that fair the shoes.

Sean





Some people seem to want to compare the rear stays of the Nocom (the bike I happen to ride) to these foot fairings. If someone wants to take the time to state specifically what part of the rules they do not comply to then I will be happy to respond separately on the forum as it does not belong in this discussion. I would recuse myself from any retroactive decision as I have already done in the original submitals) in any of the record attempts I have made. I assure you that I do not want to participate in a double standard. I have never approved any of my own records.












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randy
recumbent guru

685 Posts
Posted - 05/26/2012 :  07:31:18  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by sean costin

I believe that one could make a solid argument that a shoe is a component.


Sean,

I think it is, especially since it locks to the pedal. If it is, then the shoe fairing is to the shoe what Aures tape job is to his tiller and his idler cover is to his idler. Those things are also aerodynamic additions and not modifications of the tiller and idler assembly themselves. If need be the shoe covers could be permanently attached to the pedals (if they aren't already).

Another way to look at it is the shoe to the foot is what the seat is to the torso. Some bikes have separate seats and some have integrated seats which are molded to the frame in such a way as to divert airflow around the seat and the rider in it.
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W Hilgenberg
recumbent enthusiast

USA
251 Posts
Posted - 05/26/2012 :  07:41:37  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Personally I don't believe that the shoe "fairings" would really make that much of a difference in aerodynamics. Even if it did cut down on the drag on the shoes, it's such a turbulent region and such a short assumed airfoil section that it would still be separating pretty badly and it doesn't help with separation along the body either which is a much greater problem. I will,however, state that this is merely conjecture as I have not run a study on this.
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Upright Mike
human power expert

USA
3007 Posts
Posted - 05/26/2012 :  08:02:23  Show Profile  Visit Upright Mike's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Another view of Aure's pedals, from Malric's posting on
http://velorizontal.bbfr.net/t15620p105-56597-km-25-05-2012-nouveau-record-du-monde-de-l-heure-a-bordeaux

It appears that Aure has shoe covers on the top side of the shoes?
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