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rickmantoo
recumbent enthusiast

USA
274 Posts

Posted - 01/19/2013 :  15:03:25  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Back in 1980 I attended a IHPVA builders workshop at IIT in Chicago that had Steve Delaire do a workshop on frame building and welding. Steve used a home made gas fluxer for brazing and I asked him to show me how to build one. Steve Did and he also even gave me the left over flux since he could not take it back on the airplane.

So here is my first fluxed and it has served me well for over 30 years. It connects to the acetylene line and the acetylene bubbles through the flux and is applied to the braze joint while one is brazing.


The main problem is the inside of the tank is rusting and contaminating the flux. Here is a picture of the flux from the tank, It should be clear.


So it was time to make another fluxed this time out of stainless steel. Garrie Hill had the new tank welded for me, and I redid all the fittings and valves. I added some shut off valves into the system this time so I can completely isolate the tank .

Here is the new tank and all of the fittings.


Here is the new tank all plumbed and ready to go.


Here is a comparison between the old and new tank. The new tank is bigger around and taller. Also shown is the bottle of liquid flux. I added enough flux to fill the tank about 1/3 full.


Here is the new tank installed and ready to go.


Rick

warren
human power expert

USA
6474 Posts

Posted - 01/20/2013 :  08:21:53  Show Profile  Visit warren's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Thanks for documenting that Rick. Someday I will need to build a smaller version.
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Larry Lem
human power expert

South Sandwich Islands
2540 Posts

Posted - 01/20/2013 :  10:07:45  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hank James sells a similar item.
http://www.henryjames.com/gasf.html


Larry Lem
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delcrossv
recumbent guru

Vanuatu
815 Posts

Posted - 01/24/2013 :  12:16:50  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
So the inlet has a downtube into the flux? Looks like it in the "exploded" pic. How do you set the needle valve adjustment?

Edited by - delcrossv on 01/24/2013 12:20:31
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rickmantoo
recumbent enthusiast

USA
274 Posts

Posted - 01/24/2013 :  16:11:50  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
No "Exploding" is planned or wanted But

Yes the inlet is a "T" with the lower leg being a tube that stops about 1/8 to 1/4" from the bottom of the tank. The tube is soldered to the brass nipple that threads into the T and the tank top. I set the gas regulator to between 3-4 psi and adjust the needle valve so I can hear the gas bubbling in the tank. If while brazing I notice too much flux, I adjust the valve to slow down the bubbling.

Rick
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delcrossv
recumbent guru

Vanuatu
815 Posts

Posted - 01/25/2013 :  06:30:50  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Great, Thanks!
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Karl
Starting Member

United Kingdom
1 Posts

Posted - 02/15/2013 :  01:32:32  Show Profile  Visit Karl's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Out of interest I sent this article to a friend, he then came back with some disturbing considerations, I have just copied and pasted his return email.
Can I ask that you all do a little more research before embarking on building a GasFluxer.

"It's an interesting way of fluxing a joint, but there are some very important considerations when using Acetylene.

Acetylene may, under some circumstances, form impact sensitive explosive compounds on exposure to copper, alloys with a high copper content, silver or mercury.

There's some additional points worth considering here too as the vessel in the pictures above has been constructed from Stainless Steel.

What is in the flux? Fluxes for some metals contain Ferric & Zinc Chloride and/or Hydrochloric Acid. If this isn’t cleaned off Stainless Steel it can cause severe pitting and in some cases 'Stress Corrosion Cracking' which will destroy the strength of the material. Other fluxes are caustic based and these will attack Aluminium. Is the torch body Aluminium?

Will the flux attack or degrade the gas hoses?

The Acetylene gas becoming moist would also appear to aggrevate at least a couple of factors, the ease of formation of Acetylides and also the Acetylene's ability to attack Aluminium components.

Some of the divers I know have a phrase for when safety issues have arisen and not been acted on. They call it an 'Incident pit'. If the issues are allowed to persist the chances of something catastrophic happening rise, and at some point it becomes a non-recoverable situation.

Using acetylene to carry a flux strikes me as such a situation, as there are multiple issues here requiring careful consideration, without which might lead to something catastrophic.

I would assume that the manufacturers of commercially available gasfluxers have done their research but a DIY version would need research.

Reading some of the commercial gas fluxer's literature they don't at first overtly mention Acetylene as the fuel gas, although they do further in. Maybe other fuel gases are a safer alternative for Gasfluxing?

REFERENCES

http://www.bcga.co.uk/
BCGA Code of Practice CP5 'The design and construction of manifolds using Acetylene gas from 1.5bar to a max working pressure of 25bar (362 lbf/sqin)'.
BCGA Code of Practice CP6 'The safe distribution of Acetylene in the pressure range 0-1.5bar (0-22 lbf/sqin)'.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acetylene
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copper(I)_acetylide

UK Health & safety executive (HSE) web version of 'The safe use of compressed gases in welding, flame cutting and allied processes'.
http://www.qub.ac.uk/safety-reps/sr_webpages/safety_downloads/welding_flame_cutting.pdf "


Kind Regards
Karl

Advanced Velo Design
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rickmantoo
recumbent enthusiast

USA
274 Posts

Posted - 03/08/2013 :  07:44:16  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Karl

Thanks for the interesting reply, Fortunately I have done my research and my posting is not a build log. One should not attempt to build or copy the fluxer I built without understanding what they are trying to accomplish.

I agree that copper should not be used with Acetylene and any brass used should have a copper content below 70%. The copper tubing show in the pictures was used for fit up and has been replaced with steel tubing.

This is not a method I made up. Fluxing like this has been used commercially and in the bicycle building industry for decades The Flux and Fluxers used in this application are commercial available. I scaled mine down from the commercially available ones, without the extras reservoirs. The flux has been formulated to be used this way with Acetylene. It is easily found on line or through your local welding supply place. The Flux does not contain any on the compounds listed in your reply. (that stuff looks nasty)

Yes the gas hose need to be inspected and replaced periodically. I always inspect all aspects of the system before each use. This is just part of the extra cost and maintenance that comes with using the fluxer. I have also had to replace several seals and O rings in the gas regulator over the last 30 years of use, not sure if it is because I am using the fluxer of just old age.

This is not for everyone and I am NOT recommending everyone go out and build one. It has worked for me for over 30 years. This is a tool I use and I understand what it does and how to safely operate it within in the design and material limits.

Rick
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Garrie L Hill
human power supergeek

USA
1810 Posts

Posted - 03/08/2013 :  12:26:46  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Rick;
You left out one CYA phrase in your post:

" And remember kids, don't try this at home. We're what you call professionals!"

This is not to be construed as representing the views of this organization. Your mileage may vary. Not legal for distribution in NY, VT, FL, or the District of Columbia. Please drink responsibly, and always designate a driver. Do not use if you are currently pregnant or have plans on becoming pregnant, use NSAID's, or have a speech impediment. WMD's must always be thoroughly cleaned and sterilized before insertion. Immediately contact your doctor or health care professional if you experience any of the following symptoms: Irritability, incontinence, rash or swelling of certain appendages, death, resurrection, or anal leakage, continued experience of an erection for more than 14 hours, sudden fascination with bright shiny objects, or a burning desire to run for public office. Smoking has been shown to be hazardous to your health, particularly while in hydrogen rich environments. No shirt, no shoes, not male, no problem. Offer good only to residents of the states of Ohio, Alabama, Iowa, New Mexico, and Confusion. Do not use with open flames within spittin' distance of nuclear devices or dead armadillos ( armadilloes ). Void where prohibited, so don't get caught.

Garrie "carbon based lifeform" Hill
HPRA Co-Dictator of the East
for pics of some of my time and money sucking projects
http://garriehill.winkflash.com/
and
http://s58.photobucket.com/albums/g277/cfbb/
and videos
http://vimeo.com/5513519


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warren
human power expert

USA
6474 Posts

Posted - 03/08/2013 :  19:30:00  Show Profile  Visit warren's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Hilarious!
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delcrossv
recumbent guru

Vanuatu
815 Posts

Posted - 03/11/2013 :  09:32:29  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hmm- looks like a lot of copper to me.....



I'm copying Garrie's disclaimer.
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Speedy
recumbent guru

USA
913 Posts

Posted - 03/11/2013 :  13:11:54  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
ironic that a fellow from the UK would post such an alert
fact is gas fluxers were in heavy use in the 50s and 60s on F1 race cars
a chap from the Lotus team taught me the technology when I was an intern at a racing shop
one of the assets to the technology is that the parent material is not taken to a molten state so the original molecule alignment is not altered
the flux consists of methyl alcohol and boric acid
it does attack the hoses which only last 10 years or so
all the copper and brass parts have lasted 30 years or more
still using mine on a regular basis(weekends)
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pupush
Starting Member

USA
37 Posts

Posted - 04/10/2013 :  12:02:40  Show Profile  Visit pupush's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Great info about the fluxer never knew about such a thing.

made in Africa
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wt1937@gmail.com
Starting Member

USA
1 Posts

Posted - 04/24/2016 :  19:07:48  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
what are you using for the flux in the tank ?

William Tomkinson
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rickmantoo
recumbent enthusiast

USA
274 Posts

Posted - 04/27/2016 :  11:21:52  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
William
I am using liquid gas flux from.

http://catalog.gasflux.com/viewitems/liquid-gasflux-1/liquid-gasflux

Rick
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Grant-53
recumbent guru

USA
554 Posts

Posted - 04/28/2016 :  19:24:59  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Garrie, everything is illegal here in NY but we don't let that stop us from doing things right. Always research best practice and use best available personal protection equipment.
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Hooky
Starting Member

United Kingdom
1 Posts

Posted - 08/28/2016 :  06:42:26  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi, came across this very interesting article after searching gas fluxer. I am looking at building one and this is the best information I have yet found.
I also wanted to assure you that not everybody from the UK was a know it all health and safety wannabee like Karl!
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bambuko
Starting Member

United Kingdom
14 Posts

Posted - 08/28/2016 :  10:22:11  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
New one can be bought in UK for only 575
http://www.plasmatech.co.uk/page/gas-fluxers-flux
They also show interesting drawing of the original "Model W"
http://www.plasmatech.co.uk/File/Labelled%20Gasfluxer%204-08.pdf



Please share the progress of your own gasfluxer - I will be very interested.

Edited by - bambuko on 08/28/2016 10:34:02
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edgar
Starting Member

USA
1 Posts

Posted - 08/31/2016 :  23:28:11  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by bambuko

New one can be bought in UK for only 575
http://www.plasmatech.co.uk/page/gas-fluxers-flux
They also show interesting testogen review on https://www.the5x5project.com/testogen-review-results drawing of the original "Model W"
http://www.plasmatech.co.uk/File/Labelled%20Gasfluxer%204-08.pdf



Please share the progress of your own gasfluxer - I will be very interested.



575 seems reasonable, I thought I saw it cheaper than that before though.

Edited by - edgar on 05/01/2017 04:45:29
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carolina
human power supergeek

USA
1125 Posts

Posted - 05/01/2017 :  18:33:05  Show Profile  Visit carolina's Homepage  Reply with Quote
This guys good: read comments

https://youtu.be/nSIOgI2NDCw

velosRus.com
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