www.recumbents.com - My new streetliner (Peregrin on Birk)
www.recumbents.com
www.recumbents.com
Home | Profile | Register | Active Topics | Members | Search | FAQ
Username:
Password:
Save Password
 All Forums
 www.recumbents.com
 General Topics
 My new streetliner (Peregrin on Birk)
 New Topic  Reply to Topic
 Printer Friendly
Previous Page | Next Page
Author Previous Topic Topic Next Topic
Page: of 3

stix
recumbent enthusiast

Australia
136 Posts

Posted - 07/10/2013 :  03:51:04  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by W Hilgenberg

The large section of the Ultegra Di2 derailleur is the servo motor which remains stationary. This means that the most protruding section will be the parallelogram which is a constant between all derailleurs of the same gear capacity (9 speed, 10 speed...). So it shouldn't (keyword shouldn't) protrude any farther than your standard road derailleur.



A very insightful observation which I have confirmed by watching some video of a Di2 in action.

Stix

Peregrin on Birk (Birk Comet RT with full fairing)
Lightning F-40 (built around R-84 frame)
Soma Smoothie Upright
Go to Top of Page

W Hilgenberg
recumbent enthusiast

USA
286 Posts

Posted - 07/10/2013 :  22:59:57  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Glad to be of service!

Go to Top of Page

Joel DIckman
recumbent enthusiast

USA
129 Posts

Posted - 10/29/2013 :  10:00:57  Show Profile  Visit Joel DIckman's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Hi again stix,

It has been a few months since you got your new plaything, and I am curious about how it is working out for you. Could write up some of your impressions and post them here? It would be appreciated.

1) Do you ride your Peregrin on Birk on the streets, or just on bike paths?
2) Do you ride with the head canopy attached, or without?
3) How does the new machine compare and contrast with your older Lightning F40?
4) Any problems handling gusting crosswinds at high speed?
5) With a few months riding experience, if you could change the bike in any way, what would you have done differently?

I have a special interest in two-wheeled street streamliners, but I'm sure that many other people on this board would like to hear more from you as well.

Safe riding,
Joel Dickman
http://lightningriders.com

These three prevent most accidents: seeing, being seen, & (usually) common sense.
Go to Top of Page

stix
recumbent enthusiast

Australia
136 Posts

Posted - 10/30/2013 :  06:01:42  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi Joel,
thanks for your interest. Two wheel street streamliners are a special interest of mine as well.

I ride the PoB on both streets and bike paths. I try to ride only on streets that I know are bicycle friendly. In Brisbane we have some cycle-only paths and some mixed use paths. I keep my speed low when on mixed use paths.

I seldom ride with the head canopy but use the windscreen most of the time.

The PoB is faster than F40 in the right conditions but the F-40 is more practical for tight turns, for starting (when turning) and it feels less confining. The luggage area of the PoB is more practical (I should probably built something similar inside the F-40.).

The PoB is directly affected by gusts whereas the F-40 fabric bends a bit in the wind so that gusts are at least partially absorbed rather than directly responded to. Although I haven’t extensively tested it I feel I could ride the F-40 on windier days that the PoB. Both machines are always ready to go on any given day and if it is windier than I feel comfortable riding the PoB then I take the F-40. With both machines the faster you are travelling the more the wind affects you. Wind has not blown me off course or over in the PoB but I have slowed down a few times to reduce the effects.

The major thing I would change in the PoB would be to increase the clearance under the bomb-bay doors. Doing this would enable the bomb-bay doors to open even when the machine is tilted. It would also allow low-speed manoeuvring to be done with the doors open. Really tight turns could be done with one foot sliding along the ground and the other clipped in and pedalling (I do this occasionally in the F-40). The other situation this would really help with is when you have to turn sharply after starting. The increased clearance under the bomb-bay doors could be achieved by leaving the top of the fairing at its existing height and raising the bottom of the front half of the fairing. There is already some space under the bottom of my shoes and more could be made with shorter cranks (I ride 172.5mm at the moment). This change amounts to a complete re-make of the fairing so I am only considering it at this stage.

I have documented in this thread already some of the minor changes I have made. Another minor change I am considering is to make the mid-drive gear change electronic, currently the mid-drive is changed by reaching around my left-leg and then under the seat to a lever (the standard set-up on a Birk Comet RT).

I have purchased some Garmin Vector pedals and am working towards measuring the CdA and Crr of the PoB in its various configurations and also the F-40. I may try to measure one of the local Mango Sport velomobiles as well.

Finally I should add that the PoB is awesome fun. I remain in awe of Jürg's workmanship and the design work of Jürg and Charly. For low-wind areas like the western suburbs of Brisbane the PoB is reasonably practical and very fast in the right conditions.

Stix

quote:
Originally posted by Joel DIckman

Hi again stix,

It has been a few months since you got your new plaything, and I am curious about how it is working out for you. Could write up some of your impressions and post them here? It would be appreciated.

1) Do you ride your Peregrin on Birk on the streets, or just on bike paths?
2) Do you ride with the head canopy attached, or without?
3) How does the new machine compare and contrast with your older Lightning F40?
4) Any problems handling gusting crosswinds at high speed?
5) With a few months riding experience, if you could change the bike in any way, what would you have done differently?

I have a special interest in two-wheeled street streamliners, but I'm sure that many other people on this board would like to hear more from you as well.

Safe riding,
Joel Dickman
http://lightningriders.com

These three prevent most accidents: seeing, being seen, & (usually) common sense.




Stix

Peregrin on Birk (Birk Comet RT with full fairing)
Lightning F-40 (built around R-84 frame)
Soma Smoothie Upright
Go to Top of Page

Jeroen
Starting Member

Netherlands
15 Posts

Posted - 12/11/2014 :  01:55:36  Show Profile  Visit Jeroen's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Hi Stix,

I really like the Peregrin on Birk. I'm amazed by the build quality and attention to details!
In a few months time I'm going to start the build of my new streetliner. At the moment I'm gattering information for the design but I'm still puzzling on a few details.

Can you share a few pictures of the following items?

1. The door hinges
2. The latches to keep the top closed

I really appreciate your help!

With kind regards,
Jeroen Koeleman
Go to Top of Page

stix
recumbent enthusiast

Australia
136 Posts

Posted - 12/27/2014 :  22:07:14  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Jeroen

Hi Stix,

I really like the Peregrin on Birk. I'm amazed by the build quality and attention to details!
In a few months time I'm going to start the build of my new streetliner. At the moment I'm gattering information for the design but I'm still puzzling on a few details.

Can you share a few pictures of the following items?

1. The door hinges
2. The latches to keep the top closed

I really appreciate your help!

With kind regards,
Jeroen Koeleman


Hi Jeroen,
sorry for the slow reply. Christmas is a busy time in my family.
Firstly are you the guy in the 2 wheel streamliner that I often seen in pictures on Wim Schermer's blog? In particular the LEL race held late in your riding season?

Yes the build quality and attention to detail in the PoB is very high. Jrg Birkenstock did an amazing job building it. The underlying design is also great and is due to Charles Henry and Jrg Birkenstock.

LATCHES: The PoB came with two plastic over-centre latches fitted on each side. One near the rider's shoulder and the other near the foot flaps. I replaced the over-centre latches near the rider's shoulder with magnetic latches that I made myself. In normal operation the lid is held in place via the magnetic latches only. To open the fairing I just push up hard with my shoulders. The over-centre latches near the foot flaps are used when transporting the PoB in my car.



Above is one of the magnetic latches that I made. It is mounted near the rider's shoulder. These latches hold the fairing closed in normal operation.


Above is one of the plastic over-centre latches that are mounted near the foot flaps. I use these when transporting the PoB in my car.


Here is the upper hinge for the left foot flap. I have added the string and the polycarbonate lever to which the string attachs (hence the poor workmanship). The string allows me to easily close the foot flap. Note the smooth black piece in the centre of this hinge is a carbon spring. This spring makes the foot flap bi-stable. That is stable in the closed position and also stable in the open position.


Here is the lower hinge for the left foot flap.


This is the hinge for the front fairing. It is located low down in front of the front wheel.






Stix

Peregrin on Birk (Birk Comet RT with full fairing)
Lightning F-40 (built around R-84 frame)
Soma Smoothie Upright
Go to Top of Page

Jeroen
Starting Member

Netherlands
15 Posts

Posted - 01/06/2015 :  01:46:04  Show Profile  Visit Jeroen's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Hi Stix,

Thank you very much for the pictures!
They really help me!

Yes, I'm the one with the 2 wheeled streamliner.
My streamliner can be used in traffic, but it's to impractical and to low for everyday use.
Thats the reasson I'm going to build a new bike.

Will start a new build topic when I'm ready with the design.

With kind regards,
Jeroen Koeleman
Go to Top of Page

stix
recumbent enthusiast

Australia
136 Posts

Posted - 01/06/2015 :  06:34:39  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Jeroen

Hi Stix,

Thank you very much for the pictures!
They really help me!

Yes, I'm the one with the 2 wheeled streamliner.
My streamliner can be used in traffic, but it's to impractical and to low for everyday use.
Thats the reasson I'm going to build a new bike.

Will start a new build topic when I'm ready with the design.

With kind regards,
Jeroen Koeleman


Good luck with the project. I look forward to reading your build topic.

Stix

Peregrin on Birk (Birk Comet RT with full fairing)
Lightning F-40 (built around R-84 frame)
Soma Smoothie Upright
Go to Top of Page

stix
recumbent enthusiast

Australia
136 Posts

Posted - 03/25/2015 :  23:26:41  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Given recent postings about the PoB on Shooky56s thread and also the recent Di2 thread I thought I should update this thread with the modifications I have made to the PoB since my last post about the PoB.

Full Electronic Shifting (Di2)

A Di2 front shifter is now used to change the mid-drive gears. So together with the Di2 rear I had already installed, shifting is now fully electronic. The Di2 front shifter does not directly change the mid-drive but rather pushes and pulls the mid-drive shift lever that is part of all Birk Comet RT. I have included a picture below. The Birk Comet RT comes standard with 13T, 19T, 25T mid-drive triple chainrings. The Di2 shifter I installed can only handle a double so I changed to 12T and 25T chainrings. I also changed the driven cog on the mid-drive and the chainring at the cranks to lift the front chain as high as possible to reduce chain front wheel interference which also helps with tight turns. I had to modify the Di2 front derailleur cage so that it would fit in its unusual location and mounting it in the right place was a challenge but I got there using a carbon seatpost mounter to the drink bottle mounts on the back of the Birk Comet RT seat. As you can see from the photo below it does not look good but I can confirm it works well.



After careful measurement of clearance and careful attention to the length of the rear chain I was able to increase the rear cassette from 11-28T to 11-32. Note the rear derailleur is an old 10 speed Di2 unit (ie short cage) that is only specified for a 28T rear cog. It works fine for 11-32.

Fully electronic shifting makes riding the PoB on streets and cycleways much less stressful as fingertip shifting really helps in the tightly congested area around the handlebars and I can now get into the right gear very quickly. The extended gear range also helps in having confidence to be able to ride up steep hills (I regularly ride 10% and occasionally 13%) and still have a good top-end.



The gear inch range is 24 inches to 147 inches.

I am using Ultegra Di2 with the external battery. Battery life is great but I do carry a spare battery just in case.

Improved Turing Circle

I have improved the turning circle further by pushing the handlebars further forward to reduce tiller which in turn increases the angle I can get on the front wheel before the handlebars hit the fairing. Note I have used a cut-down slightly curved bar together with bar ends to make the new handlebar. I also put a little more seat foam behind my shoulders so that I can reach the handlebars.
The improved turning circle has given me much more confidence at intersections. I can now start straight and then turn sharply and still make all the turns I need to. There is one uphill switchback on a cycleway that still gives me trouble but I make it.

Lighting Improvements

The PoB came with a strip on LEDs neatly mounted on the rear edge acting both as a brake and a tail-light. In this position the LED strip was getting damaged occasionally so I have moved the LED strip inside the fairing where it is fully protected from knocks. I drilled a hole above each LED and filled the hole with clear epoxy. In tail-light mode the LED strip is driven at a low voltage and in brake light mode at a much higher voltage.
I have also increased the voltage supplied to the indicators to make them clearly visible in sunlight.
I am very happy with the lighting changes.



Reflective tape

I have changed the reflective tape to a less reflective product that is thinner and bends more easily. I now have more reflective tape on the machine so that overall I still very visible at night. During the day the reflective tape partially breaks up the all white exterior of the PoB as Joel suggested.



Water bladder

There is nowhere to mount a water bottle in the PoB and a water bladder in the back is inconvenient when getting in and out as the tube crosses the join between the front and read fairings. I have recently solved this problem by mounting a small insulated water bladder to the inside of the top of the front fairing just forward of the handlebars.



Comparison to the F-40.

The F-40 is certainly more practical but the PoB is faster. One of my fairly regular journeys involves a 15km ride that takes me through the city centre. I take the F-40 rather than the PoB because the route even though it is a designated cycle route involves some crazy tight turns and I am just a little more confident in traffic in the F-40 than the PoB. The F-40 handles gusty winds better than the PoB. The PoB fairing is certainly more constricting than the F-40 but I am now used to it and feel quite comfortable.


Stix

Peregrin on Birk (Birk Comet RT with full fairing)
Lightning F-40 (built around R-84 frame)
Soma Smoothie Upright
Go to Top of Page

Speedbiker
human power expert

USA
3755 Posts

Posted - 03/26/2015 :  08:24:49  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Great job adapting the electronic front shifter to your needs! It has me wondering what else it could be used for. It's just a linear motor, so probably all kinds of things.
Go to Top of Page

stix
recumbent enthusiast

Australia
136 Posts

Posted - 03/26/2015 :  15:54:39  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Speedbiker

Great job adapting the electronic front shifter to your needs! It has me wondering what else it could be used for. It's just a linear motor, so probably all kinds of things.

The Birk gear lever to change the mid-drive works great on the bare bike but once inside the fairing it is hard to reach, especially if like me you are carrying a few extra pounds. I was originally planning to remotely control the Birk mid-drive lever using a linear motor but once I planned out the shift switch, limit switches, battery etc I realised it would be much easier to use a Di2 front derailleur which was part of system that had all those things. My understanding is that some MTB suspension lockout systems will be integrated with Di2 in the future.

Stix

Peregrin on Birk (Birk Comet RT with full fairing)
Lightning F-40 (built around R-84 frame)
Soma Smoothie Upright
Go to Top of Page

stix
recumbent enthusiast

Australia
136 Posts

Posted - 11/01/2015 :  02:08:53  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
A video ( https://youtu.be/gjEkQZNOqb4 ) showing some of the street capabilities of the Peregrin on Birk. Including a 5.8m turning circle diameter (wheel track to wheel track). Climbing an 18% grade; starting and stopping; Stable riding at 2mph (3.2km/h) ie. below walking pace; handling steep driveway ramps and some riding at speed on the road.

The video was prepared by Rhubarb (thanks mate!) for use by Charles Henry in his presentation about the Peregrin on Birk at the Velomobile seminar held in Austria this weekend. Rhubarb shot this with his helmet cam mostly from his DF velomobile.

Please note I have lowered the lowest gear in the PoB to 22 gear inches. Top gear is 142 gear inches.



Stix

Peregrin on Birk (Birk Comet RT with full fairing)
Lightning F-40 (built around R-84 frame)
Soma Smoothie Upright
Go to Top of Page

Speedbiker
human power expert

USA
3755 Posts

Posted - 11/01/2015 :  11:20:11  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Great design and great riding skill!
Go to Top of Page

shooky56
recumbent guru

USA
545 Posts

Posted - 11/02/2015 :  12:01:08  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thank you Stix! I second Thom's riding skill comment. Ain't your first day on a recumbent that's for sure.

100km: ... pesky roadies...

Go to Top of Page

alevand
human power expert

USA
2929 Posts

Posted - 11/03/2015 :  03:59:19  Show Profile  Visit alevand's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I have 20 to 130 gear inches on the old Carp with a 32 to 12 rear cog, 58, 40, 24 front. I needed the lower gearing for hill climbing with the bike full of touring gear. I had an 11 but only used it over 40 mph which was not often. The closer ratios are better for me. The Pob and the lwb Carp have about the same turning radius, and I agree it makes for much better confidence not worrying about falling over in an intersection, that is embarrassing! I have zero tiller. I do unclip and put my foot down for the sharp turn onto the bike trail at full steering lock. I am not a fan of swb bikes, how do you route the chain so it doesn't hit the tire n turns? Yes, I noticed on your first video that the bomb bay doors looked to low, and fragile, I thought you would have broken them by now. I don't know what to recommend for cross winds, I have the same problem, especially with the full nose on the bike, which is disconcerting downhill on strange curvy roads. Putting more weight up front seems to help. Yes, PoB is very sleek, I am jealous.

C:
Tony Levand

Edited by - alevand on 11/03/2015 04:17:11
Go to Top of Page

stix
recumbent enthusiast

Australia
136 Posts

Posted - 11/03/2015 :  05:39:59  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by alevand

I have 20 to 130 gear inches on the old Carp with a 32 to 12 rear cog, 58, 40, 24 front. I needed the lower gearing for hill climbing with the bike full of touring gear. I had an 11 but only used it over 40 mph which was not often. The closer ratios are better for me. The Pob and the lwb Carp have about the same turning radius, and I agree it makes for much better confidence not worrying about falling over in an intersection, that is embarrassing! I have zero tiller. I do unclip and put my foot down for the sharp turn onto the bike trail at full steering lock. I am not a fan of swb bikes, how do you route the chain so it doesn't hit the tire n turns? Yes, I noticed on your first video that the bomb bay doors looked to low, and fragile, I thought you would have broken them by now. I don't know what to recommend for cross winds, I have the same problem, especially with the full nose on the bike, which is disconcerting downhill on strange curvy roads. Putting more weight up front seems to help. Yes, PoB is very sleek, I am jealous.

C:
Tony Levand

Tony,
I will take some photos of the chain routing near the front wheel (hopefully this weekend). The mid-drive helps as the drive side of the front chain runs to the top of the driven cog under the seat. The mid-drive also allows for the use of a large single chain ring up front which also raises the drive side of the front chain. Idlers route the return side close to and parallel to the drive side chain. The final piece of the puzzles is that the wheel has a close-fitting fairing around it. When I turn left sharply the wheel fairing hits the chain not the tire; furthermore the wheel fairing lifts the chain so that chain runs over the top of the fairing. The chain therefore only rubs on the wheel fairing and never touches the front tire.

The bomb-bay doors have lasted well because they are flexible but tough and if they touch the road this tends to push them shut rather than breaking them off.

Key changes for a possible future machine would be
1. Raise the bottom of the bomb-bay doors by about 10cm (4 inches).
2. Add front suspension.
3. Reduce the side area. (by using shorter and narrower cranks and removing some of the spare space inside the machine)

Current gearing configuration is
172.5mm cranks
50T chain ring
21T driven cog on the mid-drive
12T and 25T mid-drive chain rings
11-34 cassette 10-speed
700C rear wheel with 25mm tire

Could you please post a link to photos and/or description of the Carp.



Stix

Peregrin on Birk (Birk Comet RT with full fairing)
Lightning F-40 (built around R-84 frame)
Soma Smoothie Upright
Go to Top of Page

alevand
human power expert

USA
2929 Posts

Posted - 11/03/2015 :  07:17:05  Show Profile  Visit alevand's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Carp is a long wheel base, steel frame street touring Coroliner.

451 x 1 1/8 front wheel
700 x 28 rear
80 inch wheel base
49 lb empty weight
seat height 10 inches
bb height 14 inches
150 mm crank arms
narrow bb
remote steering (linkage)
mesh seat
coroplast fairing

58/40/24 front to 12,14,16,17,19,21,23,26,32 rear
170/150*58/12*27= 147 gear inches, corrected for crank length
170/150*24/32*27= 31 gear inches, corrected for crank length

one drive side idler under seat.
chain tubes
v-brakes
friction shifters
generator with LED lights
solar daytime leds
flag
About 9k miles on it

Video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hdPg6VDgiLI




https://www.crazyguyonabike.com/doc/?o=tS&doc_id=14870&v=Jz

I am in the process of upgrading it, the frame broke on a trip to Minnesota this fall. I am putting a 700c front wheel and redoing the e steering and bars, moved the idler to behind the seat.. Then it gets a fresh yellow fairing.


C:
Tony Levand

Edited by - alevand on 11/04/2015 03:39:42
Go to Top of Page

stix
recumbent enthusiast

Australia
136 Posts

Posted - 11/03/2015 :  09:24:48  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Tony unfortunately all those links give an "Error 403:Forbidden".

Stix

Peregrin on Birk (Birk Comet RT with full fairing)
Lightning F-40 (built around R-84 frame)
Soma Smoothie Upright
Go to Top of Page

Speedbiker
human power expert

USA
3755 Posts

Posted - 11/03/2015 :  09:25:29  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Stix, how many total gear combinations is that?
Go to Top of Page

alevand
human power expert

USA
2929 Posts

Posted - 11/03/2015 :  09:49:59  Show Profile  Visit alevand's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I'll edit the links when I have time.

Thom, it looks like 20 gears.

C:
Tony Levand
Go to Top of Page

Speedbiker
human power expert

USA
3755 Posts

Posted - 11/03/2015 :  10:33:51  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
It sounded like he has 2 cassettes. 100 speeds?
Go to Top of Page

alevand
human power expert

USA
2929 Posts

Posted - 11/03/2015 :  12:17:27  Show Profile  Visit alevand's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Current gearing configuration is
172.5mm cranks
50T chain ring
21T driven cog on the mid-drive
12T and 25T mid-drive chain rings
11-34 cassette 10-speed
700C rear wheel with 25mm tire




1x1x2x10 = 20

50/21*25/11*27= 146 gear inch
50/21*12/32*27= 24 gear inch

C:
Tony Levand

Edited by - alevand on 11/03/2015 12:20:28
Go to Top of Page

stix
recumbent enthusiast

Australia
136 Posts

Posted - 11/04/2015 :  00:03:01  Show Profile  Reply with Quote

Side view showing that the chain almost clears the front wheel but not quite. Also visible is the wheel fairing that tightly encloses the front wheel. This fairing turns with the front wheel.


When the front wheel is turned sharply the chain rides up and over the wheel fairing as the wheel is turned. You can pedal gently with the chain in this position. Note how the front tire is fully protected from any contact with the chain.

When the front wheel is turned like this the wheel fairing also pushes the bomb-bay doors partially open. The bomb-bay doors are sprung so that they close again when the front wheel is straight.



Stix

Peregrin on Birk (Birk Comet RT with full fairing)
Lightning F-40 (built around R-84 frame)
Soma Smoothie Upright

Edited by - stix on 11/04/2015 00:03:49
Go to Top of Page

stix
recumbent enthusiast

Australia
136 Posts

Posted - 11/04/2015 :  00:10:04  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by alevand



1x1x2x10 = 20

50/21*25/11*27= 146 gear inch
50/21*12/32*27= 24 gear inch

C:
Tony Levand


Twenty gears is correct. 2 chainrings on the mid-drive (12T & 25T) and 10 cogs on the 11-34 cassette mounted on the rear wheel. 2x10=20

Tony's calculation of gear inches is also correct.

Please note that I prefer to think in what I call corrected gear inches. Where you correct for the leverage of the crank length used back to the 170mm "standard" length. I also use a rear wheel diameter of 26.45 inches.

Therefore
Highest Gear = (170/172.5)*(50/21)*(25/11)*26.45 = 141 corrected gear inches

Lowest Gear = (170/172.5)*(50/21)*(12/34)*26.45 = 21.9 corrected gear inches


Stix

Peregrin on Birk (Birk Comet RT with full fairing)
Lightning F-40 (built around R-84 frame)
Soma Smoothie Upright

Edited by - stix on 11/04/2015 02:57:47
Go to Top of Page

stix
recumbent enthusiast

Australia
136 Posts

Posted - 11/04/2015 :  03:01:50  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Tony thanks for the photographs and links to video and blog.

Stix

Peregrin on Birk (Birk Comet RT with full fairing)
Lightning F-40 (built around R-84 frame)
Soma Smoothie Upright
Go to Top of Page
Page: of 3 Previous Topic Topic Next Topic  
Previous Page | Next Page
 New Topic  Reply to Topic
 Printer Friendly
Jump To:
www.recumbents.com © 2017 www.recumbents.com Go To Top Of Page
Snitz Forums 2000