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shooky56
recumbent guru

USA
545 Posts

Posted - 07/31/2015 :  10:18:40  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thom: Picture of the downhill racer. There were only 30ish racers at the height of the fad. Ours was never beaten. Only time anyone got close was we flatted at the bottom of the ramp. We got quite a few donations including a competing auto body shop making the fiberglass products from our paper mache and drywall plug for $200 total (go figure). We credited them though.

I figured out (circa 1984), that I could bend plexiglass with a hot rod. I fabricated a metal brake, glued an over heating element along the edge, clamped the plexiglass, set a "stop board" to the required angle and turned on the variable transformer I used to control the temp of the element. When it bent to the stop board the weight arm pushing the bend shut off the electric and it cooled there. Still have that thing in the basement.

At one point I had a battery running a small RS computer outputting to a portable TV screen to display speed and acceleration (waaaaayyy before any of that was available like it is now). We took it out when one of the events had some rain and never put it back. By then we'd seen all of that we wanted.

Didn't see the nose cose (this was in an old neighbor's shed). Nose cone that covered the two tiny front wheels (4 wheels required) looks like the skirt of a small planes front wheel. Little teardrop thing.

[URL=http://s1372.photobucket.com/user/shooky56/media/photobucket-429573-1438283215856_zpspma4yxl0.jpg.html]
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Upright Mike
human power expert

USA
3803 Posts

Posted - 08/02/2015 :  06:05:18  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Shooky - were you at the races this past weekend? If so I'm sorry I didn't meet you! There were some new faces there, and I'm always so tired out from racing and running around to meet everyone!
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shooky56
recumbent guru

USA
545 Posts

Posted - 08/02/2015 :  18:31:49  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Mike I was at the ones at Northbrook and plan to go to North Manchester in a couple weeks.

I think you were at the Northbrook races and, although all's fair in such things, I always admire a guy on the front. You spent a lot of time there. Unless I have my Mike's confused you gave me the digits for my "998" number.

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Upright Mike
human power expert

USA
3803 Posts

Posted - 08/02/2015 :  18:38:08  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi Shooky - yep that was me with the number decals! Wow - I didn't know it was you - I would have loved to talk with you about all this techy stuff! Of course, we had to do the races too..... :-)
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shooky56
recumbent guru

USA
545 Posts

Posted - 08/03/2015 :  10:07:51  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Yep yep (the races). Been away from racing so long I'd forgotten how much I enjoy being a spectator too. Thom wanted to talk this stuff too and I'm not sure there's anything I'd rather do but I was caught up in watching the racing. Funny thing, sag guy that picked me up Sunday loves Porsches and was(is) trying to talk me into selling him my old 928. Amazing how small the world is.
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shooky56
recumbent guru

USA
545 Posts

Posted - 08/03/2015 :  11:26:39  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Better picture of ye olde downhill racer, not sure of the year, mid 80s. Not that anybody cares just wanted to show that nose cone. All wheels are fully suspended although both rear wheels and both front wheels suspend as a unit so the distance between the contact points on the ground do not change. This prevents suspension scrubbing losses. At one time we had a drag chute just for the fun of it. Kids got a kick out of it. Also the E-stop on this was(is) a CO2 cylinder extending two air cylinders to drive the weight box (under the rider's rump) down on the road. Bottom of the box is covered with car tire tread. You smack a big red button to actuate it. We used it once just to see if it worked and holy Toledo did it stop.

[URL=http://s1372.photobucket.com/user/shooky56/media/Z-Family%20Photos/Red%20Rocket%20circa%201985_zpsttirxnua.png.html]
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warren
human power expert

USA
6114 Posts

Posted - 08/14/2015 :  17:14:02  Show Profile  Visit warren's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I created a web page to document HPV Shell Designer and provide a "quickstart" guide.
http://www.recumbents.com/wisil/hpvshelldesigner/
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shooky56
recumbent guru

USA
545 Posts

Posted - 08/17/2015 :  18:20:14  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thank you Warren, sheesh!

Had an interesting discussion with Richard Saturday evening while at the dinner table. We were discussing whether or not his Lycra(?) sock fairing was as fast w/o the windshield.

As close as I can quote him, "I don't know, I have never ridden it without one.".

"Well you know Richard, I ran probably a couple dozen 'canopy' CFD runs and, for the life of me, could not produce a canopy that had less drag than just my head sticking out.".

"But you have an error in your run, you don't account for the drag of the hole beneath the canopy and what all those leaks do to the airflow.".

He is exactly right. Not only that I don't know HOW to account for it. I could w/o enormous effort, export a mesh that was discontinuous to make a hole but that's not the problem. The leaks have entrances and exits that screw up the flow lines in ugly ways and I am incapable of recreating that in a simulation.

The latest release version (several months back) does allow canopies although they are no more than just "smooth shapes" there is no rhyme or reason to the curve. NASA does not publish canopy formulas, nor could I find anybody else doing it. The sailplane industry doesn't use canopies either, well not the top racing sailplanes anyway. They make teardrop cockpits and make part of the that teardrop transparent. Some BM entrees do the same, some just use cameras.

At any rate I'd spent so much time trying to figure out what I was doing wrong. Richard knew :)
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shooky56
recumbent guru

USA
545 Posts

Posted - 08/19/2015 :  11:05:22  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Some progress on the strip maker. Bit of complaining here (not really it's about the nuisance of "oh I have a flat on my bike" just takes a lot longer to fix), I have a new version that is "all 3D" meaning you do all your design work in 3D rather than rider and frame in 2D (it works much smoother BTW). In that version I'd fixed no fewer than half dozen, maybe a dozen bugs.

Unfortunately THAT version is no where near release ready so I had to go back to the last release version to add the strips. After all that whining, progress is being made and the changes should port up to the latest version pretty easily when the new one is ready. In the interim I'm just going to release the old version with the strip creator.

Not ready yet but the early work is going well.

Some minor GUI changes to the Output Window:
[URL=http://s1372.photobucket.com/user/shooky56/media/Recumbent%20Postings/Strip%20Output%20GUI%201_zpswaic7afb.png.html]
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Nose angled view of the shell using only 10 strips instead of 600:
[URL=http://s1372.photobucket.com/user/shooky56/media/Recumbent%20Postings/Strip%20Output%202_zpsygpyzqtc.png.html]
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Side view, same 10 strips:
[URL=http://s1372.photobucket.com/user/shooky56/media/Recumbent%20Postings/Strip%20Output%201_zpsfzj9dsde.png.html]
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Head-on view:
[URL=http://s1372.photobucket.com/user/shooky56/media/Recumbent%20Postings/Strip%20Output%203_zpsgaudqeoj.png.html]
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warren
human power expert

USA
6114 Posts

Posted - 08/19/2015 :  17:16:08  Show Profile  Visit warren's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Cool, that will make it much easier to create coro-liners!
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Speedbiker
human power expert

USA
3755 Posts

Posted - 08/20/2015 :  00:39:23  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Now we're talkin' !! Coroliners are fun and this could make them easy to build.
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shooky56
recumbent guru

USA
545 Posts

Posted - 08/25/2015 :  20:04:37  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Bit of an update... sheesh it's never simple...

So I have 200,000 triangles arranged in triangle "strips". This is typical of the way 3D CGI models are constructed although striping isn't required. So I modified it to make fewer strips (10 versus 200). Took a bit but finally getting results good enough to show. The coloring in the triangles show consecutive triangles. Normally these are positioned in 3D space. They are like pizza slices all connected along the edges to their neighbors. What I've done here is remove the 3D positioning from each and laid the entire strip flat on a table. That is the shape we want for one stripe. Got some problems, the math is returning junk at the end of the strip so the back got lopped off. When I get that figured out it should be pretty quick to have a release ready.

[URL=http://s1372.photobucket.com/user/shooky56/media/Recumbent%20Postings/First%20Striping%20Results-1_zpss9jfiawv.png.html]
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shooky56
recumbent guru

USA
545 Posts

Posted - 08/27/2015 :  17:56:00  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Getting a lot closer, just need some code to rotate each strip to consume the smallest height banner when printed (you don't want to use a 4 foot high banner for a 10" wide strip).

After the correct rotation I'll need to dump the points to a png, dump the png to a pdf and should be ready to get a release going. The crazy coloring is just so I can see the individual triangles, I'll draw in black for the output.

[URL=http://s1372.photobucket.com/user/shooky56/media/Recumbent%20Postings/Fourth%20Striping%20Results-1_zps5b65ktyz.png.html]
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shooky56
recumbent guru

USA
545 Posts

Posted - 08/28/2015 :  10:13:31  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
To print the strips for one side requires about 4x10 for a shell, both are on the skinny side. The cost to print that at Kinkos is $165. That also appears to be the largest banner you can print.

I'll have to work on squishing these to fit on top of each other before creating a pdf. If you printed each strip separately it would be about $700 for the example shown.

Below isn't the actual output files yet but it is all the points converted to bitmaps, just not to scale. Need to scale them (trivial) and figure out how I want to combine them (probably reverse each one for best fit) and do the math for it (not too easy).

[URL=http://s1372.photobucket.com/user/shooky56/media/Recumbent%20Postings/Fourth%20Striping%20Results-2_zpsm1ebje6k.png.html]
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shooky56
recumbent guru

USA
545 Posts

Posted - 08/28/2015 :  10:15:48  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
"both are on the skinny side": both dimensions the 4 foot and 10 foot are pretty darn skinny to get this to fit. Not sure it can even be done, certainly not for those who want a roomy shell or are enclosing trike wheels.

4x10 will, however, now be my limit for the number of these I scrunch into one pdf. I plan to give you the option. The 8x11 combiners will want separate strip prints.

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warren
human power expert

USA
6114 Posts

Posted - 08/28/2015 :  16:41:15  Show Profile  Visit warren's Homepage  Reply with Quote
It's looking good Wayne! I think it was more like $50 each for the PDFs I had printed at Kinkos but maybe that was for 3x6 feet.
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shooky56
recumbent guru

USA
545 Posts

Posted - 08/28/2015 :  16:59:28  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thanks Warren. I went to Kinkos(FedEx) and pretended to do it on-line. Stopped before I actually printed. Pretty expensive but really not all that bad if I can squeeze them into one 4x10. The run-up for it says "starting at $69" for the smallest banner and simplest options. We have simple options but big banners.

It's also possible that in store prices are different.
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warren
human power expert

USA
6114 Posts

Posted - 08/28/2015 :  18:19:47  Show Profile  Visit warren's Homepage  Reply with Quote
are you sure that price isn't for a vinyl marketing banner?
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shooky56
recumbent guru

USA
545 Posts

Posted - 08/29/2015 :  08:32:26  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I dunno, didn't think so, but I'm not sure. I just kept trying to get the cheapest possible options. It was the only banner stuff I saw. It's even on sale till 9/30.

http://www.fedex.com/us/office/banner-printing.html

Regardless it has bolstered my desire to make sure you can properly align 8x11's including indexing marks every 10 inches (so two are always on each page at each end) and central straight line. That should make us capable of producing quite accurate patterns.


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shooky56
recumbent guru

USA
545 Posts

Posted - 08/31/2015 :  12:40:14  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Several things to post if I can remember them all in one pass here.

#1 While browsing about how to force your printer to ignore paper length (we used to have direct control over printers "back in the good old days) I stumbled on another on-line printer. I did not bookmark it nor do I remember the site but the important thing is FedEx/Kinkos is not the only choice. The other place looked like it would be about $30 per strip.

#2 I haven't added alignment marks yet but I figure I'll just draw a 1 inch grid in light gray for alignment, should be pretty easy to lay your individual sheets in line straight and length true with that grid.

#3 I looked into a printer myself and am getting ready to order one, so I should be able to print these myself. It's only about $300 to get a vinyl printer/cutter and the sales rep said they all offer a pen attachment and will draw on roll paper and said lots of customers use them exactly like that. LOL. I ask if they offered roll paper and he said yes but if my projects weren't large I may want to look for another source, the smallest roll is 1/2 acre in surface area... on the bright side I may only need one roll the rest of my life...

#4 I included the scaling feature and was going to glue together a model but think I may just glue together a life size out of dummy material. This makes an 8" model shell. Although I plan to add numbers to them, if somebody wants to sic a grandkid gluing the model below, the alignment is not obvious. The are all in order from one side of the page to the other (starts at the bottom of the shell on the left side, goes up and over the top back down to the lower keel on the right). Some are end for ended to fit better. I printed straight onto white poster board and cut out the patterns but think I'll skip the small model and go big just to see if it will fit.

On the good side getting closer to a release.

[URL=http://s1372.photobucket.com/user/shooky56/media/Recumbent%20Postings/Striping%20Output%20-%201_zpsjmt6ekeb.png.html]
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shooky56
recumbent guru

USA
545 Posts

Posted - 08/31/2015 :  13:04:20  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Paper and printer (two different sources) are on the way! Under $400 for all of it including shipping. All I gotta do now is learn how to seam coroplast, I know that's in here somewhere!
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shooky56
recumbent guru

USA
545 Posts

Posted - 08/31/2015 :  21:07:30  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Like the output so far. Messed around with printing it on 8.5x11 paper. Could not flip the image at the print, had to do it in Paint. Don't want anyone to have to fiddle with that so I'll work tomorrow to rotate the image before the save so it's long and skinny. Then add the pdf conversion. Also got to figure out exactly where to put these, probably in a directory next to the other outputs so they are all by themselves.

20% scale, the inch marks do not scale. Full sized this section is roughly 10 x 100 inches. The Right Sections simply point their nose the other way. Sections go from bottom up 0-> half of the number of sections you want (half are left, half are right, section 0 is the bottom section on both sides).

You could, of course simply cut two of the same if the material has no outside. If the material has an outside you just need to put both layers inside to inside and cut through both layers to make both sides simultaneously from a one-sided set of prints.

[URL=http://s1372.photobucket.com/user/shooky56/media/Recumbent%20Postings/Striping%20Output%20-%202_zpss9zwe9yh.png.html]
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warren
human power expert

USA
6114 Posts

Posted - 09/01/2015 :  05:43:40  Show Profile  Visit warren's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Looks great, what are the details on the printer?
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shooky56
recumbent guru

USA
545 Posts

Posted - 09/01/2015 :  08:55:05  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thanks Warren. 28" wide, any length although their software only allows...mmm... I forget 20 feet I think. Length was beyond any length I would deem necessary. Print speed may not be too fast, that was one of the big differences between the $2000 machines and my $300 machine but speed isn't a concern.

But 28" wide strips are wide enough to cover a box shell (4 sides) for the most part. If a person makes a 6 sided box (flat on top and bottom) it would cover 48 high x 42 wide. I only ordered 24 inch paper which reduces that cross section to 42x36 (or 36 x 42). Both are enough to cover most every shell I've seen in use.

My first endeavor is for a nose cone "just to see if this stuff works" :)

Also there are rib sections printed too that match the number of sides. With a thick material (coroplast is thick enough to count), the ribs may not exactly fit anywhere perfectly but they should be close enough to offer guides to stabilize the sides while you work methinks. Actually if you put the patterns on the back side of the shell material and angle the knife roughly to miter the edges (so the shell inside is the right size no the outside) the ribs should fit correctly (barring that I've goofed of course).

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shooky56
recumbent guru

USA
545 Posts

Posted - 09/01/2015 :  15:01:32  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
A bit of cleaning up to do plus some testing and should be ready to start a release.

The output directory has new files to cover the addition of strip output. There are the old rib files both the pictures (.png) files and the CNC listings (.txt) files. Added are the left side and right side strip picture (.png) files and the PDF versions of those.

The GUI additions to the output window were minor:

[URL=http://s1372.photobucket.com/user/shooky56/media/Recumbent%20Postings/Strip%20GUI_zpsilnfjcxw.png.html]
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Here's PDF Viewer showing one of the strips printed in vertical. Need to make sure the MSI delivers the 3rd party PDF libraries but beyond that, the rest shouldn't be too bad.


[URL=http://s1372.photobucket.com/user/shooky56/media/Recumbent%20Postings/PDF%20view%20of%20one%20strip_zps4ply7ot8.png.html]
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