www.recumbents.com - Trike time
www.recumbents.com
www.recumbents.com
Home | Profile | Register | Active Topics | Members | Search | FAQ
Username:
Password:
Save Password
 All Forums
 www.recumbents.com
 Technical / Bike Building
 Trike time
 New Topic  Reply to Topic
 Printer Friendly
Next Page
Author Previous Topic Topic Next Topic
Page: of 6

warren
human power expert

USA
6090 Posts

Posted - 11/03/2016 :  15:03:21  Show Profile  Visit warren's Homepage  Reply with Quote
The gentle reader may ask, "Why don't you just pick a trike and ride it!". Oh, I have reasons gentle reader, reasons.

After riding and racing the Greenspeed Areo, I can say it handles corners well and is fast in a racing environment. I do not however fit in the seat as they are designed for "normal" height humans and major reconstructive surgery would need to be performed to make that happen.

After racing and riding the ICE Vortex (almost a VTX!) I can say that the seat fits me well and it is comfy, but due to a lack of triangulation it does not do well in a racing environment. The VTX is stiffer in the rear and has a seat which can be laid back more that the Vortex so it would be better, but is still has just a monotube and that will allow the rear wheel to deflect in the hard corners.

That leaves the Catrike 700 yet which I not raced or ridden in anger. It is however quite popular in the HPRA racing series. If I were to obtain one, it would need some modification including a hardshell seat to get me a bit lower, and probably a change to indirect steering. If my backside can fit between the seat rails they would make great side bolsters to prevent sliding off the seat in the hard corners.

The final option is of course, building one from scratch.

Here's my web page documenting my racing trike investigation and research.

http://www.recumbents.com/wisil/trike/default.htm

So, What makes a recumbent trike fast? Build or buy?

Speedbiker
human power expert

USA
3744 Posts

Posted - 11/03/2016 :  16:24:22  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
No trike available for purchase contains all the design criteria I think should be included for a real racing trike. Build, Warren, build!
Go to Top of Page

Tom Schneider
recumbent enthusiast

112 Posts

Posted - 11/03/2016 :  17:45:18  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
+++ on Speedbiker's "Build, Warren, build"

I am building a aero carbon delta, at glacial speed. FWD for lightness and 6" high seat with 12 degree seat back. It should be capable of 1G cornering. I couldn't buy a delta like that.

With your building experience, you should be able to build a great trike that you couldn't buy!

Tom
Go to Top of Page

Zephyr
Starting Member

USA
43 Posts

Posted - 11/03/2016 :  18:19:13  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thanks Warren for your insightful comparison. So what would you use for building the trike tubes? Aluminum ? Steel ? CF ? other?

Or would you ditch the tubes in favor of a carbon monocoque?

Dave

Edited by - Zephyr on 11/03/2016 18:30:02
Go to Top of Page

Speedbiker
human power expert

USA
3744 Posts

Posted - 11/03/2016 :  18:27:07  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I like Tom Schneider's thinking. I don't know if his vision is like mine, but I could build a very fast delta. I hope Warren does carbon over foam.
Go to Top of Page

warren
human power expert

USA
6090 Posts

Posted - 11/03/2016 :  19:35:29  Show Profile  Visit warren's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Yeah Thom, it would be carbon over foam. It's so easy to form the foam and it is remarkably stable. Adding the CF is admittedly a PITA, but the end result is very nice.

Tom, a fast Delta sounds cool, post some pictures when you can.

Here are my thoughts about design criteria for a racing trike

* 15 degree hardshell seat integrated with the frame for an aero underseat area.
* Overbuilt rear stays for good resistance to torsion in the corners
* RWD
* Lowest part has 2" ground clearance (probably an idler)
* Side stick steering
* Cruciform integrates with front of seat for aero
* Keep boom tube horizontal for as long as possible for aero

Does any body else have any good ideas I may be missing?
Go to Top of Page

aarntate
Starting Member

New Zealand
4 Posts

Posted - 11/03/2016 :  21:32:48  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
CHECK OUT THIS:

http://trumptrikes.com.au/product/elite/

Its winning all the races in Australia and has an extremely stiff twin rail chassis and you sit way low to the ground.
Go to Top of Page

ShelGame
recumbent enthusiast

USA
254 Posts

Posted - 11/04/2016 :  07:24:39  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I don't know if it would actually work as a foot-powered vehicle, but I think these things at least look stinkin' fast...

Go to Top of Page

Speedbiker
human power expert

USA
3744 Posts

Posted - 11/04/2016 :  08:55:40  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I couldn't see any pics of that Aussie trike, but someone better call Ben at Trialed and tell him he isn't winning.
Warren please consider designing it to position your body just like on your race two wheeler, including narrow hand position.
Wayne, I talked to a certain company that builds MBBs about designing a lowracer MBB trike. I think it has huge potential. They declined because they are developing an innovative (not low) tilting trike.
Go to Top of Page

purplepeopledesign
recumbent guru

Canada
681 Posts

Posted - 11/04/2016 :  09:32:25  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The pics are in further down in the gallery. They are _just_ Pedal Prix faired racers. I vote for a tilting delta.

:)ensen.

Those who claim to be making history are often the same ones repeating it.

Video of my trike
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MdSLRD_2vzc
Photos of my trike
http://www.flickr.com/photos/purplepeople/

Edited by - purplepeopledesign on 11/04/2016 09:34:00
Go to Top of Page

warren
human power expert

USA
6090 Posts

Posted - 11/06/2016 :  09:43:57  Show Profile  Visit warren's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Yes, I'm going to make the riding position match my other racers, it's a position that works well for me both for racing and riding on the road.

Thom, I am considering a more aero F1 style handlebar ( I prefer that term over ones referring to small rodents or insects) over the side stick bars. It may work out well with the boom configuration. So far all design work has been done in my head. I need to start drawing to see how it really looks on paper. The area I am most concerned about is where the cruciform, seat, and boom all come together. The cruciform will need to be Y shaped so it can attach to the sides of the leading edge of the seat rather than in front of it. this will reduce some of the aero issues normally caused by the cruciform. A lot of this stuff is pretty non-traditional for a trike, but one of the nice things about CF is you can get away with things that would be structurally bad using traditional techniques by just adding a few more layers of CF.
Go to Top of Page

Speedbiker
human power expert

USA
3744 Posts

Posted - 11/06/2016 :  18:12:47  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I don't know what F-1 means, but both hands close together just above your crotchal region, elbows tucked is fastest by far. and since you aren't using the steering for balance I don't see a problem. Also, anywhere structures or foils come together should have big radius faired edges(wing roots).
Go to Top of Page

warren
human power expert

USA
6090 Posts

Posted - 11/07/2016 :  07:34:12  Show Profile  Visit warren's Homepage  Reply with Quote
F1, like the race car. Their steering places the hands close together and in about the right position for a recumbent.



I believe this explains "the position" better than reverse anthropomorphizing.

Edited by - warren on 11/08/2016 11:27:08
Go to Top of Page

Speedbiker
human power expert

USA
3744 Posts

Posted - 11/08/2016 :  15:23:24  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Just what we need, another vague handlebar description. Looks like a medium width gunner...
Go to Top of Page

warren
human power expert

USA
6090 Posts

Posted - 11/09/2016 :  16:23:53  Show Profile  Visit warren's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Here's what the Catrike 700 would look like with a 15 degree seat and an extra tall one legged rider in the NoCom position. I had to stretch the frame 4 inches and crank the seat back 10 degrees.



Interestingly, after extending the boom normally, the BB is in the correct place for the NoCom position.

Edited by - warren on 11/09/2016 16:27:30
Go to Top of Page

Speedbiker
human power expert

USA
3744 Posts

Posted - 11/09/2016 :  16:49:12  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Lay the seat flatter?
Go to Top of Page

warren
human power expert

USA
6090 Posts

Posted - 11/09/2016 :  19:17:04  Show Profile  Visit warren's Homepage  Reply with Quote
15 degrees is about my max recline.
Go to Top of Page

Speedbiker
human power expert

USA
3744 Posts

Posted - 11/10/2016 :  07:40:24  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
If it feels like what you like, then great. But my protraxtor(and eyeball) says it's north of 25 degree. But your last two builds told you what works.
Go to Top of Page

PUGZCAT
recumbent enthusiast

Canada
459 Posts

Posted - 11/12/2016 :  18:33:57  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hmm, maybe take some cues from the masters of clean tadpole trike design and speed record holders: TriSled.
Go to Top of Page

PUGZCAT
recumbent enthusiast

Canada
459 Posts

Posted - 11/13/2016 :  10:09:00  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
http://halfbikes.com/

Or, reinvent the Vacuum, late 70's tilting trike!
Go to Top of Page

purplepeopledesign
recumbent guru

Canada
681 Posts

Posted - 11/13/2016 :  18:31:22  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Just looked at those Halfbike lean-steer trikes and while they might look high performance, the illusion in the homepage video is that not once do the riders ride in as straight a line as possible. By taking a weaving path down the hill, they avoid any oscillation that would upset vehicle stability.

:)ensen.

Those who claim to be making history are often the same ones repeating it.

Video of my trike
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MdSLRD_2vzc
Photos of my trike
http://www.flickr.com/photos/purplepeople/
Go to Top of Page

Jeff Wills
human power supergeek

USA
1271 Posts

Posted - 11/13/2016 :  20:29:52  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by PUGZCAT

http://halfbikes.com/

Or, reinvent the Vacuum, late 70's tilting trike!



A friend of mine has a Vacuum Velocipede. Its handling characteristics are, um..., unique.

__________________
Jeff Wills
All my bikes:
(Site nuked by Comcast. Will return soon.)
Go to Top of Page

carolina
recumbent guru

USA
566 Posts

Posted - 11/14/2016 :  06:05:40  Show Profile  Visit carolina's Homepage  Reply with Quote
use sq. carbon fiber tubes, l sell em/:)

Use velo components , how bout a single swingarm?

Is this a rider or racer?

__________________________________________

One of rickys first trikes: notice the vertical boom.

[/URL]

Single swingarm 26":

[/URL]

Mag wheels with macpherson strut suspension:

[/URL]

Another rear suspension:

[/URL]

Another:

[/URL]

Oh well, just some pics and ideas,, maybe there will be many new builders in the near future. l hope.



velosRus.com

Edited by - carolina on 11/14/2016 06:12:59
Go to Top of Page

ShelGame
recumbent enthusiast

USA
254 Posts

Posted - 11/14/2016 :  06:12:03  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by PUGZCAT

http://halfbikes.com/



The CG appears to be about 3ft above, and 6in behind the front contact patch. Stopping it could be... adventurous...
Go to Top of Page

Speedbiker
human power expert

USA
3744 Posts

Posted - 11/14/2016 :  07:42:59  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Did everyone suddenly forget that Warren plans to build a non-leaning SPEED trike. Not a tilter, not a birdcage, not a velomobile...
Go to Top of Page

warren
human power expert

USA
6090 Posts

Posted - 11/14/2016 :  09:03:11  Show Profile  Visit warren's Homepage  Reply with Quote
LOL. Did some drawing over the weekend, I suppose I ought to post then to keep this thread on the tracks...
Go to Top of Page
Page: of 6 Previous Topic Topic Next Topic  
Next Page
 New Topic  Reply to Topic
 Printer Friendly
Jump To:
www.recumbents.com © 2017 www.recumbents.com Go To Top Of Page
Snitz Forums 2000