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 Trike time (see pg 5 for build 1)
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jjackstone
recumbent enthusiast

USA
240 Posts

Posted - 01/13/2018 :  10:42:00  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Maybe you've already seen this page. It has a number of trike steering ideas.

http://www.ihpva.org/projects/tstrike/steering.htm


JJ
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Johnsfwdbent
recumbent enthusiast

USA
123 Posts

Posted - 01/13/2018 :  19:34:26  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Warren, how about switching the spindles from side to side, then you will have the tie rods in front of the axle .
You can then lengthen your steering bracket to reach. It might make the steering too responsive, but hey you gotta try it.
Try the simplest solutions first!
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Tom Schneider
recumbent enthusiast

121 Posts

Posted - 01/13/2018 :  21:38:17  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Another simple(almost) solution,use the long tie rod that connects one wheel to the other.
You will need to weld/attach another steering arm in front of the wheel spindle to match the steering bracket arm angle with both perpendicular to the line between the wheel spindle and the steering bracket. That centers the right/left travel.
Then use the a tie rod that goes from the new wheel steering arm to the steering bracket.
The geometry stays as you designed.

Edited by - Tom Schneider on 01/13/2018 23:06:23
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warren
human power expert

USA
6254 Posts

Posted - 01/14/2018 :  20:56:36  Show Profile  Visit warren's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Thanks for the input guys, lots of good solutions. Whatever I do I think will require a lot of rework. I think I like the ICE solution the best. Here's a drawing of what I can glean of the ICE geometry.



The odd thing is that there is no traditional Ackerman. Is the Ackerman compensation handled by the wide set handlebar pivot? I can see how that would make the wheels turn at different rate. Hmm.

Edited by - warren on 01/14/2018 20:59:19
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alevand
human power expert

USA
3201 Posts

Posted - 01/15/2018 :  08:52:49  Show Profile  Visit alevand's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I think you make the Pitman arm the same length as the knuckle arms and the inner rod ends have the same offset angle as the knuckle has on Ackerman.


quote:
Originally posted by warren

Thanks for the input guys, lots of good solutions. Whatever I do I think will require a lot of rework. I think I like the ICE solution the best. Here's a drawing of what I can glean of the ICE geometry.



The odd thing is that there is no traditional Ackerman. Is the Ackerman compensation handled by the wide set handlebar pivot? I can see how that would make the wheels turn at different rate. Hmm.



C:
Tony Levand
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Tom Schneider
recumbent enthusiast

121 Posts

Posted - 01/15/2018 :  11:39:08  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by warren

Thanks for the input guys, lots of good solutions. Whatever I do I think will require a lot of rework. I think I like the ICE solution the best. Here's a drawing of what I can glean of the ICE geometry.



The odd thing is that there is no traditional Ackerman. Is the Ackerman compensation handled by the wide set handlebar pivot? I can see how that would make the wheels turn at different rate. Hmm.


I think this would work:
As Tony said, keep all the knuckle arms and effective Pitman arm the same length. With the existing long tie-rod installed and and adjusted, measure and record the angle between the knuckle arm and the tie-rod. Free the tie-rod from the knuckles. Attach a new tie-rod to Pitman arm and one knuckle arm. Adjust to keep Pitman arm perpendicular to tie-rod and the knuckle arm at the recorded angle to the tie-rod.
Repeat for the opposite side.
The bad part is you then must move the axles to the correct location on the Knuckles, or you could remount the knuckle arms.

Edited by - Tom Schneider on 01/15/2018 11:48:56
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warren
human power expert

USA
6254 Posts

Posted - 01/15/2018 :  14:36:47  Show Profile  Visit warren's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Great explanation guys, thank you!

I'm getting used to several rounds of rework at every step on this trike...

Edited by - warren on 01/15/2018 14:40:18
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warren
human power expert

USA
6254 Posts

Posted - 01/17/2018 :  11:03:56  Show Profile  Visit warren's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I was able to get the seat mounted over the past several days and I'm pretty happy that everything looks straight!

I'm not sure I have enough clearance with the seat mounted, but without the seat Tony's "135 degrees to the tangent" method works with my existing steering components to provide limited steering.

I'm still learning as I go and there are several things that need to be fixed.
* Steering linkages
* Slight tweak on left kingpin steering head tube that means I need to unbraze/rebraze it.
* Steerer tubes too short for clamps, just using top caps for bearing compression. Doh!

Edited by - warren on 01/17/2018 11:36:52
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alevand
human power expert

USA
3201 Posts

Posted - 01/18/2018 :  05:39:25  Show Profile  Visit alevand's Homepage  Reply with Quote
A link that's bent on one end to clear the steering tube. I've cut the treads off the rod end and welded it to the tube end. 5/8 or 3/4 tube, it worked fine and was on the carp for along time. Adjustment is done on the other end in half turn increments.


C:
Tony Levand

Edited by - alevand on 01/18/2018 05:40:49
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warren
human power expert

USA
6254 Posts

Posted - 01/18/2018 :  12:17:37  Show Profile  Visit warren's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I sat on the trike for the first time last night. Yay! Apparently the handlebar headtube is not going to work in its current location due to nonexistent crotch clearance. Boo! Now I am considering the dual side stick steering again...
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Speedbiker
human power expert

USA
3835 Posts

Posted - 01/18/2018 :  19:30:57  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Nooo!
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Jerry
human power supergeek

USA
1266 Posts

Posted - 01/18/2018 :  20:01:22  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Sorry your steering didn't work out, but am wanting to see how you build the dual side stick steering. Side stick steering would solve a couple of my problems on my trike.
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alevand
human power expert

USA
3201 Posts

Posted - 01/20/2018 :  07:12:19  Show Profile  Visit alevand's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Maybe USS?


C:
Tony Levand
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Tom Schneider
recumbent enthusiast

121 Posts

Posted - 01/20/2018 :  08:15:36  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
How about going back to your original setup, but with the steering tube moved forward and the pitman arm on the back side. More crotch clearance and correct steering geometry.

Tom
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Speedbiker
human power expert

USA
3835 Posts

Posted - 01/20/2018 :  11:02:57  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Your original goal was to build a very fast trike. Abandoning OSS puts you back with the stock trikes. I'm sure you can do the surgery necessary to make OSS work.
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warren
human power expert

USA
6254 Posts

Posted - 01/24/2018 :  18:38:09  Show Profile  Visit warren's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Trimmed the boom tube and added the crank assembly that I had previously cut off the donor bike.

Made the decision to use the side stick steering, which will clamp to the now unused head tube. I checked the position and it will keep my hands and arms close to the sides my body. Not great for frontal area but at least my arms aren't spread wide like on normal trikes. I can always add OSS later...

Something like this...


Added the power side idler and checked the chain line. Looks good!



Edited by - warren on 01/24/2018 18:44:00
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warren
human power expert

USA
6254 Posts

Posted - 01/28/2018 :  14:39:41  Show Profile  Visit warren's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Cut a bunch of tubes and brazed them together to make a side stick steering. Sat on the bike to check the position and clearances.

Nope Nope Nope Nope.

The position feels good and is pretty aero, but my hand would be hit by the tire in a tight turn. If I were to move the steering back far enough to not hit the tire, it wouldn't be aero at all.



Now I'm noticing that my arms are long enough to have a steering control just behind the cruciform, which would also be a pretty aero position. Back to the drawing board.

Edited by - warren on 01/28/2018 14:59:46
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warren
human power expert

USA
6254 Posts

Posted - 01/28/2018 :  17:18:02  Show Profile  Visit warren's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Later I did some experimentation rolling around on the trike in my basement with vise grips on the ends of the ackerman arms. It seemed like direct steering felt ok and it was a good reasonable position for aero as my hands are directly behind the kingpins. I then hacked up the side stick steering and brazed some of the tubes onto the ends of the ackerman arms. Rolled around some more in the basement. It seems good so I'm going with it! As a plus, it's so simple!



The only issue is that it won't keep me in my seat in the sharp corners, so some testing will need to be done there to see if body english will be enough.
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carolina
recumbent guru

USA
821 Posts

Posted - 01/28/2018 :  17:46:46  Show Profile  Visit carolina's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Can u explain why you wouldn’t use tank steering on race trike. I never built one and never will but like watching. Is this one like a catrike?

velosRus.com
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warren
human power expert

USA
6254 Posts

Posted - 01/28/2018 :  19:27:41  Show Profile  Visit warren's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I would have used tank (side stick) steering if I could. Apparently my arms are too long.
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warren
human power expert

USA
6254 Posts

Posted - 01/29/2018 :  12:26:30  Show Profile  Visit warren's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I added the brake levers, rear derailleur and some chain. Ordered some Sturmy-Archer parts to connect the brake cables, and a new pin for my chain tool from Niagara Cycles. Chain line looks very nice! One idler on the power side and probably a short chunk of tubing on the return side just to keep the chain from flopping around. It's amazing when all of a sudden it's almost rideable!
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warren
human power expert

USA
6254 Posts

Posted - 02/01/2018 :  10:48:53  Show Profile  Visit warren's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I'm still waiting on the brake parts.

There are so many little things to do still! Last night I laid up the CF tube clamp to attach the boom firmly to the steel frame stub. 10 layers of CF! Popped the aluminum spacer out this morning. I need to cut and shape the clamp so it's pretty and pick up a couple 8mm bolts to provide the clamping.

Edited by - warren on 02/01/2018 10:49:41
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warren
human power expert

USA
6254 Posts

Posted - 02/01/2018 :  20:55:12  Show Profile  Visit warren's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Clamped the boom in place and put the chain together, then rode it around the basement a bit. Fun!



Still no brakes, parts should arrive this weekend.

Edited by - warren on 02/01/2018 21:37:33
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Johnsfwdbent
recumbent enthusiast

USA
123 Posts

Posted - 02/01/2018 :  22:16:39  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Looking good Warren!,
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warren
human power expert

USA
6254 Posts

Posted - 02/05/2018 :  21:46:06  Show Profile  Visit warren's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Tonight I added the brakes parts. Shortest brake cables ever! Shortened the chain a bit. Rode it around the basement and almost took out the furnace LOL! I need to finish the idler and return chain management but the garage is too cold!
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