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Speedbiker
human power expert

USA
3704 Posts

Posted - 08/15/2017 :  16:33:36  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Speak of the devil...
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Grant-53
recumbent guru

USA
526 Posts

Posted - 08/18/2017 :  12:41:42  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
We try not to being good Baptists;) There is very little literature on building recumbent bikes compared to upright designs. The regulars here are the experts. There is however much available on general design and engineering that can be helpful. Building $50k robots is not the same as HPVs but knowing about belt drives could be helpful. You may never know when a bit of technology from one field will prove useful somewhere else. The cut and fold methods for making aircraft seats could apply to recumbent seats. See some of the commuter rail car companies' websites. I worked for Testori America for six years in Quality mostly. CAF has a plant in town also. Schweitzer aircraft was based here until it was bought up. The founding family still is here. If you live near Orlando, Fl there are any number of businesses that might deal in mechanical design for automation.
The article Tony posted there was a reference to "High-Tech Cycling" by Edmund Burke, useful info even if only intended for uprights. On Quality the none mathematics "Completeness" by Philip B. Crosby is excellent. There are several good volumes and articles on aerodynamics. See W H Hucho and Joseph Katz as most often cited.
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carolina
recumbent guru

USA
517 Posts

Posted - 08/18/2017 :  19:00:11  Show Profile  Visit carolina's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Your correct grant bout others help. I been around bondo bob/lakeland airport. He made these bd-5 jet molds l own. Only ones in the world, the bd is metal kit. Also worked with nick jones @ his shop in early 90's (white-lightnin, lightnin bug airplanes) married elaine dupont. Hes older now and enjoying the huspa plantation in s.c.. l have studied much with 12 years of sun-n-fun every april at Lakeland fla.. 31 years of flying, still flying my varieze. Iam fortunate to have finished the velomobiel unibody mold and 0 problems.

Osiris you should get up with bob at lakeland airport.

velosRus.com

Edited by - carolina on 08/18/2017 19:01:43
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Grant-53
recumbent guru

USA
526 Posts

Posted - 08/18/2017 :  20:47:00  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
My wife is trying to get time off to go NC. Wow, a velo and a VariEze be still my heart.
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carolina
recumbent guru

USA
517 Posts

Posted - 08/18/2017 :  21:05:07  Show Profile  Visit carolina's Homepage  Reply with Quote
When i ran the 10 car hauler to california and back for million plus miles l bought the varieze in Arizona, brought it home and worked on it. 170mph cruz any day. Ground speeds can get incredible, climbs to 10 thousand quick enough. Built in pacifica california / its a 91'. I have 1600 hours/inst rated.

Can't fly forever, need a velo & a boat.

velosRus.com
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DougC
Starting Member

USA
10 Posts

Posted - 08/19/2017 :  11:59:55  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Osiris
Well that's what I was wondering about. It seems to me that there has been a convergence of opinion as to what constitutes the objectively "best" formula for velomobile design. ...


Because that is what has been found to generally work best.

Another way to look at it is to consider some of the efforts by industrial-design projects. You see these in press releases from time to time. Some of them even have crowdfunding pages to try to produce and sell them.

These velos are very "car-like" (even with four wheels), very upright and very stubby.
The shapes are usually streamlined somewhat, but they still have HUGE amounts of frontal area.
Some of them even include motors built-in, as--even when they boast about using composite construction!--they are so heavy and draggy that they really aren't practical to pedal very far or very fast.

The reason these are built so badly is because they were built by people who never actually had to use the things.
They were art-school projects, that only had to look different. That's why they love to include pointlessly silly things like hubless wheels. They really don't work very well in real life.

Another example was when Graehem Obree decided to jump into IHPVA racing. The first pics of his bike left a lot of IHPVA regulars shaking their heads.
He thought it was innovative, but {prone bikes} and {linear pedaling} was two ideas that have been tried many times and never did well in IHPVA racing.
And he did well anyway, because of his physique--but the bike obviously held him back.
A lot of us wish he could have gotten a GOOD bike and come back and tried again, but that never happened.
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Grant-53
recumbent guru

USA
526 Posts

Posted - 08/19/2017 :  12:44:57  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
We call it the Conservation of Reality law. Reality cannot be created or destroyed by ordinary wishful thinking. The trick is to understand what works and why it works. Then you can measure improvements to see if an idea (hypothesis) will work (experiment).
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carolina
recumbent guru

USA
517 Posts

Posted - 08/19/2017 :  13:17:18  Show Profile  Visit carolina's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Amen!!!!!!!!!

velosRus.com
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Joel DIckman
recumbent enthusiast

USA
127 Posts

Posted - 09/16/2017 :  18:49:43  Show Profile  Visit Joel DIckman's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Osiris




...I don't think my question is being addressed. My point was that the high end CF bikes you're referring to are NOT fundamentally different in design from the type of steel frame bikes that made their debut in the 19th century. The sorts of design changes we've seen over the span of a century are only incremental ones; the basic design is fundamentally the same.

My question with respect to velomobile design was whether it's design, like that of the bicycle, is already at such a state of refinement that a velomobile made a century from now will be essentially the same vehicle we see today. (An example of a fundamental design change is the replacement of a structural frame with a unibody design.)
[/quote]

Some velomobile and recumbent trike enthusiasts are trying to create machines that lean into turns in a way that is similar to two-wheeled recumbent bikes. This would allow three-wheelers to turn safely at higher speeds. It would also give trikes a very different ride "feel".

I ride both ordinary two-wheeled recumbents and one bike that has an attached sidecar. The sidecar-equipped machine is effectively turned into a trike, and whenever I go around a sharp turn I miss the ability to lean. Go around a turn too fast and I risk flipping over. Not good, especially with a kid sitting in the sidecar seat. Leaning velomobiles are heavier, more expensive, and more complex. Kind of like linear drives. But I think a well-engineered leaning velo offers a much more substantial benefit than making the nose a little more aero with a linear drive.

Lots of people love cycling, but are afraid to share the road with distracted motorists texting and talking on cellphones. Hopefully the driverless cars and trucks of the not-too-distant future will make human powered transport safer, and induce more people to venture out onto the streets. This could stimulate a growth in cycling generally, including recumbent development.

Safe riding,
Joel Dickman
http://lightningriders.com

These three prevent most accidents: seeing, being seen. & (usually) common sense.

Edited by - Joel DIckman on 09/17/2017 08:10:43
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carolina
recumbent guru

USA
517 Posts

Posted - 09/16/2017 :  21:49:56  Show Profile  Visit carolina's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Good points:

Velos like the pod will probably be in front in usa. Self drive will help, but we need a government that will build bike infrastructure and alot of white paint & stencils.

Batteries will be very good in ten years

The composite industry is always making improvements to our supplies even in last 4 years. Thats the necessity of unibodies.

Usa people are not like Europe riders and l think the assistant motors will be sell points in usa.

Slaming down the front with push push pedals want do it.

velosRus.com
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Grant-53
recumbent guru

USA
526 Posts

Posted - 09/17/2017 :  15:56:52  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Yes, front wheel drive unibody with up to three seats offset and electric assist. The solo urban upright will likely be a Z frame I beam inside an aero shell. A belt driven internal gear hub in a 26" wheel and a 20" front. Tires are 1.5" tubeless. Racks on buses and rail cars.
In 1966 I attended the auto show in Buffalo. NY where only Simca had a unibody 4 cyl. front wheel drive car on display. People are going to see the value of not sitting in traffic for 45 minutes to get the 10 miles to their job. If cyclists can cruise at 25-30 mph then separate lanes will not always be needed. A great deal of education on the part of motorists and cyclists is needed.
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Grant-53
recumbent guru

USA
526 Posts

Posted - 09/18/2017 :  19:04:09  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
A SWB recumbent would also fit on a bus rack. Expect the IEEE and the SAE to come up with standards for vehicle radar frequencies and transponders.
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warren
human power expert

USA
6051 Posts

Posted - 09/19/2017 :  09:33:08  Show Profile  Visit warren's Homepage  Reply with Quote
The Mexico teams had two linear arm and leg powered streamliners that they brought to Battle Mountain this year. One went 10 MPH. The other they could not get working. Case in point.
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Grant-53
recumbent guru

USA
526 Posts

Posted - 09/20/2017 :  13:04:31  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Without a picture it is hard to tell what went wrong. Too many cranks and cables? I have dealt with Mexican firms and they are not clueless. How would you attack the problem?
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