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alevand
human power expert

USA
2908 Posts

Posted - 10/24/2017 :  06:53:32  Show Profile  Visit alevand's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Hi Jerry, you rode in Ky too.

Yes my way, dryer stopped working Thursday and oven yesterday, I broke the cermet glow igniter trying to reinstall it.

Natchex would give me Arkansas and Louisiana.

I need to cut and reweld the stem shorter, put on brakes and gears before the first real test ride. I am thinking about remote steering and praying mantis position so I don't have my arms stretched out in front. Easier on the shoulders, I think, and the fairing can be lower in front, just above my knees. The remote stem would have to pivot for egress and a spring loaded lock pin for riding.

C:
Tony Levand
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Jerry
recumbent guru

USA
967 Posts

Posted - 10/24/2017 :  15:02:45  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
KY and one more state I can't remember!

We have to buy a new refrigerator, stove, microwave, and dishwasher for the new house. We close tomorrow at 4:30 pm. Painters show up Thursday morning at 8. New floors too. Then it is off to my mom's, she is feeling poorly, then off to MO to Move on the 13th of November.

Maybe I'll have everything sorted out by the 1st of the year.
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alevand
human power expert

USA
2908 Posts

Posted - 10/24/2017 :  18:59:45  Show Profile  Visit alevand's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I lowered the handle bars 4 inches and weighed it, 29 lbs wet, no light weight. Rode around the parking lot in the cold rain (45F) a few laps, needed gloves.

Maybe Natchex around Thanksgiving or End of December.

Played hooky, but is seemed like it took all day to get the back brake on.

I reinforced the stays.



My pant leg is getting caught in the return idler. I may reroute it under the drive side, it will take one more idler, but I dont have to raise the drive idler.
C:
Tony Levand

Edited by - alevand on 10/25/2017 18:52:51
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Jerry
recumbent guru

USA
967 Posts

Posted - 10/25/2017 :  22:15:41  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hmmm! December might work. I will have to see what all I need to get done on the house.
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alevand
human power expert

USA
2908 Posts

Posted - 10/30/2017 :  07:04:21  Show Profile  Visit alevand's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Warren was right, sprocket idlers are better than pulleys. I made this about 10 years ago as a failed experiment, welded a cog to a bearing. It has some roughness but not too bad. I filed the spherical washers down, but still need to bring the v-brakes inbd for knee clearance. They be better mounted on the fork front. I need to route the return under the drive chain, but its busy there, getting black knee. derailleurs are working well, needs a granny gear cog.

Back brake just skids, front is good, unlike lwb where braking is mostly rear.




C:
Tony Levand

Edited by - alevand on 10/30/2017 07:16:17
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Jerry
recumbent guru

USA
967 Posts

Posted - 10/31/2017 :  08:13:12  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I found out the hard way that on swb bikes the front brake does most of the work. I locked up the rear brake going fast down hill and almost lost it. I don't put much pressure on the rear brake any more.

Could you use a double idler for the power and return? Or would that be too wide?
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alevand
human power expert

USA
2908 Posts

Posted - 10/31/2017 :  13:09:13  Show Profile  Visit alevand's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Too wide.

Fwd is looking better all the time, 2 or 3 fewer idlers and a less than half the chain, more storage space in back, no derailleur to cover in the fairing. I don't know how much torque steer there would be, it would need a big sprocket to drive the 20 inch wheel, 70 teeth.

... I made two more idler sprockets. I weld the sprocket to 4130 tube and press in the bearing, then stake it.


C:
Tony Levand

Edited by - alevand on 10/31/2017 19:12:28
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Johnsfwdbent
recumbent enthusiast

USA
116 Posts

Posted - 10/31/2017 :  21:22:34  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Tony for the front wheel drive you can just use two separate chains and your idler can have two sprockets to step up the gearing.
A mid drive.
Thatís what I do when I can only find a 56 chainring and I need a 60 or 65.
Then you only need 1 idler and the derailuer of course!

Good luck!
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Jerry
recumbent guru

USA
967 Posts

Posted - 10/31/2017 :  22:30:16  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Fwd sounds good. I have been thinking about changing the Baron over to fwd. Maybe I'll give it more thought since I will have a work shop again very soon!
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alevand
human power expert

USA
2908 Posts

Posted - 11/01/2017 :  07:24:21  Show Profile  Visit alevand's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I never liked mid-drives, because of the loss of efficiency, but I am warming up to the idea. Probably not worse than 4 idlers and a long chain. I could weld two sprockets to one tube with two bearings. I could use 2 cassettes spacers to set them apart. A 32 and a 24 tooth would due. I need to check knee clearance.

... Id have to build a new fork for FWD, id be really nice to have a suspension.



.... Humm, the mid drive would have to be attached to the unsprung fork. That would cause some torque steer. Its not so simple.
C:
Tony Levand

Edited by - alevand on 11/01/2017 18:05:48
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Jerry
recumbent guru

USA
967 Posts

Posted - 11/01/2017 :  19:03:38  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Tony I put 40 mm Schwalbe Marathons on the front of the corovelo. When I run under 70 psi, it feels like I have suspension. You can run them all the way down to 50 psi.
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alevand
human power expert

USA
2908 Posts

Posted - 11/02/2017 :  18:41:19  Show Profile  Visit alevand's Homepage  Reply with Quote
The mid drive has to move up and down and not steer, the handle bars had have to steer and not go up and down, not simple. I have a 37 mm, 72 TPI front tire at 70 psi max. Marathons are not known for their suppleness. I think I'll go with a RWD and a front suspension, rather than FWD and no suspension, and I'll be happier on the first bumpy chip seal road. Unless some one posts a way to do it. Im looking at this BMX tire: Maxxas DHT. 20x 1.5, 120 tpi, 110 psi, soft compound.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-Maxxis-DTH-20x1-5-Folding-Race-Tire-Black/191870855237?epid=1700006455&hash=item2cac64e845:g:PY4AAOSwLghZssB-

C:
Tony Levand

Edited by - alevand on 11/02/2017 20:08:29
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warren
human power expert

USA
6087 Posts

Posted - 11/02/2017 :  21:51:14  Show Profile  Visit warren's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I thought about this a lot back in '02.

http://www.recumbents.com/wisil/fwdsusp/fwd_suspension.htm
http://www.recumbents.com/wisil/barracuda/barracudaframe2.htm

I finally ended up suspending the whole front subframe, which is fine in a 'liner with a perimeter frame, but tough for a non-faired bike.

Edited by - warren on 11/02/2017 21:52:11
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Speedbiker
human power expert

USA
3744 Posts

Posted - 11/02/2017 :  22:46:02  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Johnsfwdbent isn't faired, has 700cs, and a 56 isn't big enough!
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alevand
human power expert

USA
2908 Posts

Posted - 11/03/2017 :  06:44:39  Show Profile  Visit alevand's Homepage  Reply with Quote
John is as tall as Warren. Im afraid that I just wont have enough steering for touring with the 559 FWD. I could have the handlebars unsprung, and or use a hybrid suspension neck.

Yes, Warren the unsprung subframe seems the simplest solution, but would be a weight penalty on a framed bike, having two booms. The unsprung boom could be shortened if the fork and headset were reversed with remote steering, but the suspension vector is not vertical. Virtual pivot steering doesn't work well with reversed angles, it puts the links in compression, an unstable configuration. The fork ball joints would have to be close together as possible. The links would need the suspension spring built in somehow, maybe telescoping, as long as the move together. I think the bike would do nose dive with front braking.

quote:
Originally posted by Speedbiker

Johnsfwdbent isn't faired, has 700cs, and a 56 isn't big enough!





... Probably be better with a standard headset and a flex fork that flexes like a cantilever leaf spring.

C:
Tony Levand

Edited by - alevand on 11/03/2017 11:37:40
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warren
human power expert

USA
6087 Posts

Posted - 11/03/2017 :  12:40:43  Show Profile  Visit warren's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Maybe you can fabricate a FWD fork like this?



It would give some suspension and not be compressed by pedal strokes.
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alevand
human power expert

USA
2908 Posts

Posted - 11/03/2017 :  17:13:56  Show Profile  Visit alevand's Homepage  Reply with Quote
How is it not compressed by the chain tension, its in line with the pivot on the curved fork? It may not work so well with a wide range cassette on the hub. I have a 12 to 32, if the pivot is in the middle, that would be (12-32)/2*.5/pi/2 = +/- .8 inches. Low gears it would bob up, high gears bob down, but less than a straight suspension fork by a factor of .6. It would need a drive side idler to work or the cassette on the mid drive.

.. Maybe if the pivot was at the top of the fork, by the mid-drive, yes that just might work.


... The drive idler moves up and down on the arm, but does not turn with steering, the idler should be lower than shown, so the chain is perpendicular to the suspension motion. Remote steering would decouple the handle bars. The VPS links react the drag moment about the steering head. The bearing would be spherical, or axial with a flex plate. The suspension components, spring and pivot, could be integrated into a fiberglass composite flex beam.



C:
Tony Levand

Edited by - alevand on 11/04/2017 07:41:51
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alevand
human power expert

USA
2908 Posts

Posted - 11/04/2017 :  08:02:26  Show Profile  Visit alevand's Homepage  Reply with Quote
559X2...Only one small problem, crank and chain ring overlap....



I have one of three options:

1) I could move the wheel back 3 inches

2) I could move the wheel back 1 inch and use 1 inch shorter (130mm) cranks.

3) I could move the wheel forward 2 inches, and use a slider crank, like pedal blocks.

It almost looks like a Varna.

C:
Tony Levand

Edited by - alevand on 11/04/2017 09:21:33
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alevand
human power expert

USA
2908 Posts

Posted - 11/05/2017 :  07:02:51  Show Profile  Visit alevand's Homepage  Reply with Quote
The worn out Panaracer Pasala TG 700x32c with wheel covers is much faster on pavement than the Schwalbe Marathon 26x1.5, and the hybrid tire 700x38c. Not as good on gravel. Did some work on the drive, now smoother, not a noisy and is staying on the idler cogs, needs some keepers. Still getting black leg. It rained and drizzled all day yesterday, I might get out for a ride today. I want to change the seat mesh, too soft, getting back aches, comfy though, like a suspension. I put an old tail box from 2005 on for looks yesterday. Tent seems OK ,a few small holes on the bottom. I found out yesterday that my 20x1.5 front tire is 120 TPI. I wouldn't recommend it, I got in tMarch and it already has cracks in it. Its only rated for 70 psi, dosen't seat well in the bead. - Vee Rubber Baldy.



I had rider from Szechuan China stay over night Friday, it was cold and raining. Nice guy, riding to California from New York.

C:
Tony Levand

Edited by - alevand on 11/05/2017 07:34:21
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alevand
human power expert

USA
2908 Posts

Posted - 11/06/2017 :  12:21:13  Show Profile  Visit alevand's Homepage  Reply with Quote
https://flic.kr/p/21acTkC

I reprinted a return idler sprocket in nylon, it turned out good, it weighs nothing, 8 grams, 17 teeth. It uses an in-line skate bearing.

... I took the chain off and put it in solvent, then I washed in detergent, dried it off and heated it. Got the wood stove going and put the chain and wax in an ammo box. Got the wax boiling, added some boric acid. It seemed to dissolve. After a while in boiling wax, I took the chain out an hung it to cool off. It seems stiff, almost like a rusty chain. It should brake in 50 miles or so, but now it has a lot of friction. Hopefully it will solve the black hands and leg.

C:
Tony Levand

Edited by - alevand on 11/08/2017 18:11:51
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warren
human power expert

USA
6087 Posts

Posted - 11/08/2017 :  21:02:30  Show Profile  Visit warren's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Ya, drivetrain is a little noisy but it looks good and looks like it handles great. Building a fairing for it?
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alevand
human power expert

USA
2908 Posts

Posted - 11/09/2017 :  05:58:52  Show Profile  Visit alevand's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I want to solve the drive train issues before putting a fairing on. I'll run the return under the drive chain, it will take one more idler. It needs something to keep the chain from rubbing on the seat frame, so maybe another drive idler in back, or bent the tube out of the way. This is the longest chain Ive had on any bike.

These little nuisances become problems on a long ride, like your knee touching the idler, eventually it becomes a sore.

C:
Tony Levand
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alevand
human power expert

USA
2908 Posts

Posted - 11/10/2017 :  22:09:25  Show Profile  Visit alevand's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I moved the back seat support up 1 1/2 inches, now there is plenty of chain clearance.Tomorrow I am going to reroute the chain, I'll move the bottom drive idler forward from beneath the seat and try to route the return underneath. Maybe Natchez by the end of December?

... Idler tube rigged up to weld.


It turned out about 2mm to high. I may still need that rear idler for seat mesh clearance when on the large cassettes.

I ordered 10 more 6002 shielded bearings for the new idlers. I'll have some in stock for the Phoenix 559xII build plus spares.

C:
Tony Levand

Edited by - alevand on 11/11/2017 16:42:25
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Jerry
recumbent guru

USA
967 Posts

Posted - 11/12/2017 :  10:28:09  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Get it done Tony, and maybe, just maybe, I can get over to the Natchez and meet up with you. I still have a lot on my plate the next month or so, but if nothing else I would drive over and ride a day with you. Need to go see my mother anyway.
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alevand
human power expert

USA
2908 Posts

Posted - 11/12/2017 :  12:06:12  Show Profile  Visit alevand's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I made a rear rack for panniers and a better rear fender. I was going to go for a ride, but now its raining. I could find my rain gear somewhere... but the wax on the chain will wash off, well its better to test that now anyway..

Well, Jerry, don't make any definite plans, because you know... what always happens.

This is the climate outlook for December Its not worth a hoot, cause last year it showed the same, until the Polar Vortex hit.





C:
Tony Levand

Edited by - alevand on 11/12/2017 12:21:30
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