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Jerry
recumbent guru

USA
988 Posts

Posted - 11/14/2017 :  18:55:49  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Tony, the only definite plan right now is to get home and unload the truck and trailer, then rest a day or two. I am planning on going over to my mom's in about a week for a week. I might go ride the Natchez one day.
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alevand
human power expert

USA
2943 Posts

Posted - 11/16/2017 :  07:40:23  Show Profile  Visit alevand's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I got the 6002 bearings and made one drive idler. I was going to reverse the fork, I may still do so, but as I was grinding off the generator mount, the grinder slipped and gashed the side wall. The inner tube started bubbling out. So much for my 120 TPI BMX tire. I'll put a boot in it for the time being. I'm having a mental heath day today from work, so I'll work on reversing the fork, this will put the brakes away from my knees. After that I need to build a 20 inch drive wheel. I have two narrowed front 451 wheels, I will use the rim off one and a hub odd an existing 700 c wheel. The lacing is cross 2, but on a wide flanged hub, Hopefully they are long enough for the drive hub. Cross 2 should be OK for driving with rim brakes and 36 spokes.

... I needed about a 1/4 inch more threads. I was able to cut 1/2 inch of threads in the steer tube by slotting an old race with the hand grinder and cutoff blade and using a large adjustable wrench.



... the spokes turn out too short, I'll have to order some for cross 3. The 406 x 1.5 BMX front wheel was cross 4, and the narrowed 451 wheel and 1 1/8 tire look rather spinally compared to it.

Sun M3II rim, 20 x 1 1/8 (451) Deore FH-M570 hub, 36 spokes, cross 3.

https://leonard.io/edd/

...210 and 212 mm I'll order 212 mm. Not sure If I'll dish it.

... ordered the spokes, should be here on the 21st.

I should get a new tire, 20 X 1 3/8 too.



C:
Tony Levand

Edited by - alevand on 11/17/2017 12:29:48
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alevand
human power expert

USA
2943 Posts

Posted - 11/17/2017 :  12:07:23  Show Profile  Visit alevand's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Yesterday I adjusted the Carp fork for the narrow 451 front wheel. I originally made the wheel for a VPS LWB bike. I want to use a 20x 1 3/8 tire, but I think it will be too big, as the tire is almost touching the crank arm and is near the frame with a 1 1/8 tire. I unassembled the other 451 narrow wheel, a 700C rear wheel and ordered 212 mm spokes to make a 451 36 spoke drive wheel. The fork steel is soft, annealed from the fire.

Tioga makes 1.6 and 1.85 wide 120 TPI,120 psi tires for 451 rims.



Today I built a 406x 1.5 32 spoke drive wheel.

This is the nick the grinder took out of the side wall. I cut a piece of side wall from an old tire and glued it in for now. I bought the tire in March and its already dry cracking - Vee Rubber 120 TPI Baldy.



Next I need to build the FWD fork.

I received the new air pad, Klymit Inertia Wave. It weights 10 oz, but came without the inflation bulb, when that arrives I can try it out. Its suppose to be good for hammocks too. To me it looks a little thin, so I may go with a Static V Recon pad, which is an inch thicker, 2.5 vs 1.5 inch an only 3 oz heavier. https://www.klymit.com/sleeping-pads.html
... I got the bulb and it leaks, pad is too thin for side sleeping, returning to Klymit for refund.

I tried out the dome tent in the rain after I patched the holes in the floor, melted from the fire, but is seems the waterproofing is not as good as it was,it wasn't beading water. So I am trying the tent I made for the Minnesota trip, made out of a $3 Menards 8x10 brown tarp. I have some 1/8 fiberglass rods, 2 5 feet long that make perfect half circle supports inside. I need to put a door and a foot window flap in. I support the front by tying it to the seat frame at the top and something else at the foot.

The rods will keep the tarp from sagging in:

Id like tor try for an overnighter during the Thanksgiving break.

C:
Tony Levand

Edited by - alevand on 11/18/2017 07:18:04
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warren
human power expert

USA
6120 Posts

Posted - 11/17/2017 :  15:01:31  Show Profile  Visit warren's Homepage  Reply with Quote
The thread cutter is cool!
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alevand
human power expert

USA
2943 Posts

Posted - 11/17/2017 :  17:24:32  Show Profile  Visit alevand's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I made the FWD fork, I need to cut more another 1/2 inch of threads. The fork steel is THICK, I beveled the ends for welding. I have about 2 inches trail. I don't think I can use amid drive, because I'll need two chain tensioners, one for the triple in front. The wheel has 1/2 nipple turn of dish offset.




I cut another 1/2 inch of threads. The fork metal is thicker, so my stem doesn't fit. I stopped there.

I am not sure what to do for the gearing. If I use a mid-drive, then I would either need to use two chain tensioners or move the triple to the mid-drive. 4 chain rings on the mid-drive may interfere with pedaling. If I use just an idler, then I need a 68 tooth chain ring, and use a 28 to 11 cassette, and redo the front derailleur, the tube is not long enough, and the boom extension is aluminum. Of course this set up would have the highest efficiency. I have 32 to 12 now and 52,42 and 30 front. Id need something like 68 to 52 to 40. Derailleur would need to take up 45 teeth. Would I want to throw out 5 to 10% effort to chain losses? I don't think I want to make a cross over drive.

My question is: Is a mid drive less efficient than an idler?


... Well that fork went to the parts bin and I bent up the old carp fork, the one I had narrowed. I tested that I could still ride no hands, in this crappy snow/rain weather.

Now to mount the derailleur on the fork. I really don't want to take the rear drive apart, it works. Im going to look a photos on the web.
C:
Tony Levand

Edited by - alevand on 11/18/2017 14:18:55
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alevand
human power expert

USA
2943 Posts

Posted - 11/18/2017 :  14:24:48  Show Profile  Visit alevand's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Looks like they all have about 180 degrees chain wrap. Looks like I can have the return idler a few inches in front of the drive,\.

Rode down the block and back in the cold, rainy windy night. Torque steer is not noticeable, I can still ride no hands and pedal. i was concerned that my foot would hit the derailleur, it doesn't. I like how the Performer idler pivots and may do simular.

C:
Tony Levand

Edited by - alevand on 11/18/2017 19:00:11
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warren
human power expert

USA
6120 Posts

Posted - 11/19/2017 :  10:31:10  Show Profile  Visit warren's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Looks good Tony! The next trick is getting the brakes in there somewhere!

Edited by - warren on 11/19/2017 10:37:30
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alevand
human power expert

USA
2943 Posts

Posted - 11/19/2017 :  18:07:52  Show Profile  Visit alevand's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Hi Warren, Yes, I bought some Tekro mini v-brakes and cool stop eagle claw pads, yet to arrive. I changed the derailleur to one identical but with a slightly shorter cage, now my heel hits it. I also changed out the 32-13 to a 28-11 cassette. The chain jumps off the drive idler. FWD took a pound of chain and half pound of idlers off the bike.

C:
Tony Levand
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warren
human power expert

USA
6120 Posts

Posted - 11/19/2017 :  19:13:42  Show Profile  Visit warren's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Yep, you need to add side plates to the drive idler, or just use a fenner pulley.
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alevand
human power expert

USA
2943 Posts

Posted - 11/20/2017 :  12:36:18  Show Profile  Visit alevand's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I found this online, 5$:



C:
Tony Levand

Edited by - alevand on 11/20/2017 12:38:48
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Jerry
recumbent guru

USA
988 Posts

Posted - 11/20/2017 :  14:19:47  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I finally got moved and have wifi again. Been without TV and internet for 2 weeks, except when we stopped somewhere to eat. Looks good Tony. Where did you find that tooth idler on the net? Is it 15 tooth?

My right calf is very sore and swollen from my new riding shoes. I guess I had the cleats way too far forward and rode too far after not riding for a while, and then cutting grass with a push mower, and then lifting weights. Oh yeah, and moving!

Let me know if you are doing the Natchez ride next month. I am not making plans because it jinxes me. Maybe things would work out better un-planned.
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alevand
human power expert

USA
2943 Posts

Posted - 11/21/2017 :  11:37:47  Show Profile  Visit alevand's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Its from a garage door, the sprocket may be too thick for an 8 speed chain.

The efficiency of a chain drive is a function of the sprocket diameters, and is how much the contacting link is rotating during engagement. If I use a BioPace chain ring, that is flatter where the chain engages during the power stroke, then it should have slightly higher efficiency for a equivalent number of teeth than a round chain ring.


For the rear wheel, spoke length would be ref: https://leonard.io/edd/:


Hub Shimano Deore HB-M510, front
Rim Salsa Delgado Cross 700c
Spokes 32
Crosses 2
Spoke length left 288.3 mm
Spoke length right 288.3 mm

OR
Hub Shimano Deore HB-M510, front
Rim Salsa Delgado Cross 700c
Spokes 32
Crosses 3
Spoke length left 295.3 mm
Spoke length right 295.3 mm


C:
Tony Levand

Edited by - alevand on 11/21/2017 18:55:01
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alevand
human power expert

USA
2943 Posts

Posted - 11/22/2017 :  07:28:55  Show Profile  Visit alevand's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I tried out the klymit static V pad last night, probably about 30F. It only has an R value of 1.3, compared to the Lite-core, which melted in the fire, with an R of 3.2. You wouldn't think the small R values would make a difference , but it does. It felt cool on the bottom, which never was the case for the Lite-core. Not as bad a hammock. My sleeping bag is rated for comfort level at 27F,but I'll have to wear long johns, something warmer than a pair of jeans. It seemed warmer when I put the pad inside the sleeping bag, but it might have just been the effort involved, inch worming inside the tent.

I made a Heim joint return idler, but haven't got the front brakes mounted yet, all the v-brakes I have, have the noodle on the right side which interferes with the drive when steered.

I got the brakes mounted, I need to redo the rears.


C:
Tony Levand

Edited by - alevand on 11/22/2017 21:31:24
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alevand
human power expert

USA
2943 Posts

Posted - 11/23/2017 :  08:09:31  Show Profile  Visit alevand's Homepage  Reply with Quote
ell I tried sleeping out side again in 30F weather, Failed. I should have been warm, my sleeping bag is rated for 15F, comfort 27F, I had long johns, a shirt, sweater, down jacket, wool socks and balaclava. The Klymit Static V inflatable sleeping pad is cold, almost like a hammock, only has a R-value of 1.3.

I found a list of sleeping pads with R-values and sorted them by R-value/Weight in Open Office Calc: REF: https://sectionhiker.com/sleeping-pad-r-values/

The Exped Downmat winterlite is down filled.

( I dont know how to format hypertext)

  • man product R-value weight thickess tech R-value/weight
    Gossamer Gear Nightlight 2.27 4.9 0.75 Closed Cell 0.46
    Exped Downmat Winterlite 7 16.8 3.5 Inflatable 0.42
    Therm-a-Rest NeoAir XTherm 5.7 15 2.5 Inflatable 0.38
    Exped Synmat Winterlite 4.9 14.3 3.5 Inflatable 0.34
    Therm-a-Rest NeoAir XLite Womens 3.9 12 2.5 Inflatable 0.33
    Exped Downmat UL 7 5.9 20.5 2.8 Inflatable 0.29
    Exped Synmat Hyperlite 3.3 12.3 2.5 Inflatable 0.27
    Therm-a-Rest NeoAir XLite 3.2 12 2.5 Inflatable 0.27
    Big Agnes Insulated Q-Core SL 4.5 17 3.5 Inflatable 0.26
    Therm-a-Rest NeoAir All Season 4.9 19 2.5 Inflatable 0.26
    Big Agnes Double Stuffed Double Z 5.8 24 4 Inflatable 0.24
    Exped Synmat 9 6 25.4 3.5 Inflatable 0.24
    Exped Downmat 9 8 34 3.5 Inflatable 0.24
    Sea-to-Summit Ultralight Insulated Mat 3.3 15.5 2 Inflatable 0.21
    Therma-Rest Prolite Plus Womens 4.2 20 1.5 Self-Inflating 0.21
    Sea-to-Summit Comfort Light Insulated Mat 4.2 20.5 2.5 Inflatable 0.20
    Therm-a-Rest NeoAir XLite Max SV 3.2 16 2.5 Inflatable 0.20
    REI Flash Insulated 3.2 16 2.5 Inflatable 0.20
    Therm-a-Rest Ridgerest SOLite 2.8 14 1.5 Closed Cell 0.20
    Exped Downmat 7 5.9 29.8 2.8 Inflatable 0.20
    Exped Synmat UL 7 3.1 15.8 2.8 Inflatable 0.20
    Sea-to-Summit Comfort Plus Insulated Mat 5 25.5 2.5 Inflatable 0.20
    Exped Downmat Lite 5 4.1 21 2 Inflatable 0.20
    REI Blue Foam Pad 1.4 7.5 0.38 Closed Cell 0.19
    Big Agnes Insulated Aircore 4.1 22 3.25 Inflatable 0.19
    Therm-a-Rest Z-lite SOL 2.6 14 0.75 Closed Cell 0.19
    Therm-a-Rest RidgeRest Classic 2.6 14 0.625 Closed Cell 0.19
    Big Agnes Insulated Q-Core 5 27 4 Inflatable 0.19
    Therm-a-Rest Ridgerest Solar 3.5 19 0.79 Closed Cell 0.18
    Therm-a-Rest Prolite Womens 3 17 1 Self-Inflating 0.18
    Therm-a-Rest NeoAir Trekker 3 17 2.5 Inflatable 0.18
    Klymit Insulated Static V 4.4 25 2.5 Inflatable 0.18
    Klymit Insulated Static V 4.4 25 2.5 Inflatable 0.18
    Therm-a-Rest Womens Trail Lite 4.9 28 1.5 Self-Inflating 0.18
    Therma-Rest Prolite Plus 3.4 20 1.5 Self-Inflating 0.17
    Therm-a-Rest Evolite 2 12 2 Self-Inflating 0.17
    Exped SynMat Lite 5 3.8 23.1 2 Inflatable 0.16
    Exped Synmat 7 4.9 29.9 2.8 Inflatable 0.16
    REI Air Rail 1.5 4.2 26 1.5 Self-inflating 0.16
    Therm-a-Rest Womens Trail Pro 4.8 30 2 Self-Inflating 0.16
    Therm-a-Rest Evolite Plus 3.2 20 2.5 Self-Inflating 0.16
    Therm-a-Rest Trail Scout 3.4 22 1 Self-Inflating 0.15
    Big Agnes Two Track 5.5 36 2 Self-Inflating 0.15
    Big Agnes Hinman 5.5 36 1.5 Self-Inflating 0.15
    Therm-a-Rest MondoKing 11.4 75 4 Self-Inflating 0.15
    Therm-a-Rest Prolite 2.4 17 1 Self-Inflating 0.14
    REI Trekker 5.6 40 1.75 Self-inflating 0.14
    Therm-a-Rest Trail Pro 4 30 2 Self-Inflating 0.13
    Therm-a-Rest Basecamp 5 38 2 Self-Inflating 0.13
    Therm-a-Rest Luxury MAP 6.8 52 3 Self-Inflating 0.13
    Sea-to-Summit Comfort Plus Mat 2.5 20 2.5 Inflatable 0.13
    Therm-a-Rest Z Shield 1.5 12 0.38 Closed Cell 0.13
    REI Cirrus Insulated 2.8 23 2.5 Inflatable 0.12
    Therm-a-Rest Trail Lite 3.4 28 1.5 Self-Inflating 0.12
    Exped Synmat 12 6 52 4.7 Inflatable 0.12
    Exped Syncell 5 2.9 25.6 2 Inflatable 0.11
    Therm-a-Rest Zonker 4.4 41 1.75 Self-Inflating 0.11
    REI Stratus Insulated 2.9 29 2.5 Inflatable 0.10
    Therm-a-Rest NeoAir Voyager 2.2 23 2.5 Inflatable 0.10
    Therm-a-Rest NeoAir Camper 2.2 24 3 Inflatable 0.09
    Therm-a-Rest NeoAir Dream 6 66 4 Inflatable 0.09
    Big Agnes Green Ridge 1.5 17 2.5 Inflatable 0.09
    Big Agnes Double Z 1.5 17 4 Inflatable 0.09
    REI Kingdom Insulated 3.5 41 2.75 Inflatable 0.09
    Klymit Static V2 1.3 16.33 2.5 Inflatable 0.08
    Therm-a-Rest NeoAir Venutre WV 1.8 24 2 Inflatable 0.08
    Klymit Static V 1.3 18.1 2.5 Inflatable 0.07
    Big Agnes Air Core 1.5 21 3.25 Inflatable 0.07
    Therm-a-Rest Lair Air 2.2 32 2 Inflatable 0.07
    Sea-to-Summit Comfort Light Mat 1 16 2.5 Inflatable 0.06
    Sea-to-Summit Ultralight Mat 0.7 12.5 2 Inflatable 0.06
    Klymit Static V Luxe 1.3 26.5 3 Inflatable 0.05
    NEMO Nomad Insulated NA 60 6 Inflatable #VALUE!
    NEMO Nomad NA 47 6 Inflatable #VALUE!
    NEMO Cosmo Insulated NA 29 3.5 Inflatable #VALUE!
    NEMO Astro Insulated NA 27 3.5 Inflatable #VALUE!
    Big Agnes Insulated Air Core Ultra NA 23 3.5 Inflatable #VALUE!
    NEMO Cosmo NA 23 3.5 Inflatable #VALUE!
    Big Agnes Air Core Ultra NA 22 3.5 Inflatable #VALUE!
    NEMO Astro NA 19 3.5 Inflatable #VALUE!
    NEMO Astro Insulated Lite NA 19 3.5 Inflatable #VALUE!
    NEMO Vector Insulated NA 19 3 Inflatable #VALUE!
    Big Agnes Q-Core SLX NA 17 4.25 Inflatable #VALUE!
    Klymit Inertia XL NA 17 1.5 Inflatable #VALUE!
    NEMO Vector NA 17 3 Inflatable #VALUE!
    NEMO Tensor Field Insulated NA 17 3 Inflatable #VALUE!
    NEMO Tensor Insulated NA 15.7 3 Inflatable #VALUE!
    NEMO Astro Lite NA 14 3.5 Inflatable #VALUE!
    NEMO Tensor NA 13.5 3 Inflatable #VALUE!
    Klymit Inertia O Zone NA 12.2 1.75 Inflatable #VALUE!
    Klymit X Wave NA 10.5 1.5 Inflatable #VALUE!
    Klymit Inertia X Frame NA 9.1 1.5 Inflatable #VALUE!
    NEMO Tensor Mummy 20S NA 8 3 Inflatable #VALUE!
    Klymit Inertia X-Lite NA 6.1 1.5 Inflatable #VALUE!



C:
Tony Levand

Edited by - alevand on 11/24/2017 07:30:36
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Jerry
recumbent guru

USA
988 Posts

Posted - 11/23/2017 :  20:55:48  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Maybe it is not the pad Tony, you know, you are getting older!
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alevand
human power expert

USA
2943 Posts

Posted - 11/24/2017 :  07:19:34  Show Profile  Visit alevand's Homepage  Reply with Quote
No, Jerry I'm not getting older. I tried the old Thermarest foam pad last night, folded in two to make it the same length, similar outdoor temperatures and I woke up sweating. I took the down jacket and sweater off as was OK, except around 2 am both shoulders were aching no mater what position I was in, so I went inside to my comfy bed. Folded it two R value is 4 to 5, and it feels much warmer than the Static V 1.3 R value.

I rode the bike to Thanksgiving dinner, about 17 miles. My foot hits the dérailleur, which causes a steering perturbation. Just after going down a fast hill I crashed. No injuries. I have the habit of coasting with my left foot forward and right foot back, because in the Carp I unclip to put me right foot down. It needs some work, but Id like to take it out for an over nighter this weekend.

Well I fixed most of the little problems except my heal still hits the dérailleur.

This is what the first pad in the list looks like (6 oz weight): https://www.gossamergear.com/collections/sleeping-pads/products/nightlight-sleeping-pad-torso-length


C:
Tony Levand

Edited by - alevand on 11/24/2017 17:42:45
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alevand
human power expert

USA
2943 Posts

Posted - 11/24/2017 :  17:46:26  Show Profile  Visit alevand's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Ive tried 6 different dérailleurs, 2 shamano and 2 sram, one suntour, one falcon.. My foot hits all of them. I need to move or remove the dérailleur. If I move it down, I'll have less that 180 degree chain wrap. If I move it up, it hits the fork.


... I moved the dérailleur attachment down about an inch. With a Sun Tour Dérailleur, my heal doesn't hit. The cage is a little too long so it has lees steering.


The Sun Tour VS Shamano dérailleurs, The Shamano has the tension spring that sticks way out. The Falcon dérailleur has identical geometry to the Shamano.



C:
Tony Levand

Edited by - alevand on 11/25/2017 10:27:47
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alevand
human power expert

USA
2943 Posts

Posted - 11/25/2017 :  19:44:16  Show Profile  Visit alevand's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I went for a ride today, dint have enough time to pack for an overnighter. Its the end of November and the leaves are still green, looks like the tropics.


C:
Tony Levand

Edited by - alevand on 11/25/2017 19:49:11
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alevand
human power expert

USA
2943 Posts

Posted - 11/26/2017 :  07:23:32  Show Profile  Visit alevand's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Official winter forecast, low confidence, equal chance of being warm or cold:



C:
Tony Levand

Edited by - alevand on 11/26/2017 07:25:07
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alevand
human power expert

USA
2943 Posts

Posted - 11/28/2017 :  06:45:12  Show Profile  Visit alevand's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I went for a ride: https://www.crazyguyonabike.com/doc/?o=1o0&doc_id=20381&v=16

C:
Tony Levand
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warren
human power expert

USA
6120 Posts

Posted - 11/28/2017 :  08:42:32  Show Profile  Visit warren's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Looks like a fun ride! It's always amazing when we build something and then it actually works the way we want it to and doesn't break. Do you still want to add a full fairing to it Tony or is it "fast enough"? How much slower is it? After many years I decided that the PITA factor outweighed my need for speed, so I stopped using full fairings on the road. Speaking of that, I have the old WISIL bubble and coroplast fairing that I used last on my commuter ebike languishing in the garage. It would probably work well on your bike. You can have it if you want it.
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Jerry
recumbent guru

USA
988 Posts

Posted - 11/28/2017 :  16:33:13  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Glad you got the bike going well and took a nice little trip. Are you still thinking about doing the Natchez next month? Should be dry and warmer than usual.

I agree about a full fairing being a pita on the road, especially trying to tour with it on a two wheeler. Now a full fairing on a trike is a horse of a different color. Plenty of storage room, out of the weather, and fast enough when needed. I have actually taken a couple of nice naps in my corovelo. Will try spending the night in it soon.
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alevand
human power expert

USA
2943 Posts

Posted - 11/28/2017 :  18:58:59  Show Profile  Visit alevand's Homepage  Reply with Quote
4 or 5 mph slower on a smooth flat, but easier climbing. Fat front tire is better in gravel. I think I'll try a full fairing, keeps the cold wind and rain off anyway. I am NOT making any such plans to get the bike and gear ready and tested and get some long miles in on the road before a ride down to Natchez to meet Jerry end of this December. Without the full fairing Id probably would drive down and ride the trace from there, as the consecutive 86 milers kicked my butt.

C:
Tony Levand

Edited by - alevand on 11/28/2017 19:04:06
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warren
human power expert

USA
6120 Posts

Posted - 11/29/2017 :  11:45:36  Show Profile  Visit warren's Homepage  Reply with Quote
This is the fairing: http://www.recumbents.com/wisil/e-bent/ebent-fairing/e-bent_fair8.jpg
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alevand
human power expert

USA
2943 Posts

Posted - 11/29/2017 :  18:32:22  Show Profile  Visit alevand's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Thanks, Warren, I have one of those bubbles, but now its smoked glass. I have a sheet of coroplast already clamped and being curved for the front. I'll work on it this weekend.

The chain was squeaking after only 200 miles, so I oiled it this morning, so smooth now. So much for wax, take the chain off every 200 mile, boiling it in wax and then a 50 mile brake in, no thanks. Its already black. Need a cover over the drive idler to keep my pant leg from getting pinched.

C:
Tony Levand
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