www.recumbents.com - Streamliner Fairing Construction and Design
www.recumbents.com
www.recumbents.com
Home | Profile | Register | Active Topics | Members | Search | FAQ
Username:
Password:
Save Password
 All Forums
 www.recumbents.com
 Technical / Bike Building
 Streamliner Fairing Construction and Design
 New Topic  Reply to Topic
 Printer Friendly
Next Page
Author Previous Topic Topic Next Topic
Page: of 4

Matthew Martin
Starting Member

USA
17 Posts

Posted - 09/19/2017 :  20:42:30  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi, I am a high school student who has been interested in the concept of streamliners and their construction. The question that has been bothering me is not knowing how to attach a windscreen (canopy;plastic view port) to a fiberglass fairing almost seamlessly without the use of tape. I have been working tirelessly on a cad model of a bike that I hope to build. The bike is a somewhat practical streamliner that is high enough to be moderately visible in traffic. I need to be able to attach a large vacuumed formed windscreen to go with my design.As I don't know how to insert my image ( not online so no url) my windscreen needs to be similar to the velotilt

Edited by - Matthew Martin on 10/05/2017 18:49:55

Speedbiker
human power expert

USA
3703 Posts

Posted - 09/19/2017 :  21:20:48  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
You can use two sided tape or glue. Then you can sand it to match and fill and paint the sanded edge.
Go to Top of Page

warren
human power expert

USA
6050 Posts

Posted - 09/20/2017 :  08:16:22  Show Profile  Visit warren's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Typically there is a small channel/flange formed in the body that the windscreen fits into to allow it to be flush with the body.
Go to Top of Page

alevand
human power expert

USA
2874 Posts

Posted - 09/20/2017 :  12:42:18  Show Profile  Visit alevand's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Greg found some instability at speed with a lean steer. I havent seen any high speed videos of the velotilt.

http://adventuresofgreg.com/blog/category/hprecords/24hrdr/page/6/

quote:
Speed stability: I am still somewhat concerned about high speed stability of the lean steer configuration. Without the fairing and without the heavy stabilizing weight of the fairing, itís a bit strange at very, very high speeds over sudden bumps. This is probably due to the bump steer phenomenon and according to Bob Rohorn, itís just something to get used to and probably wonít cause a crash. The other concern is high speed cornering stability due to the trike wheels Ė any trike geometry has the same issues with super high speed cornering and that is tipping. The Rocket is as stable or more stable than most commercial trikes, but none of them are anywhere near as stable as a two wheeled lowracer.


C:
Tony Levand

Edited by - alevand on 09/20/2017 12:44:59
Go to Top of Page

Speedbiker
human power expert

USA
3703 Posts

Posted - 09/20/2017 :  13:00:04  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Matthew said his windshield shape was similar to the TV. Not that he was building a copy of the TV. Greg's early trike didn't tilt and in all my years of working with him I never knew him to build a tilter. Bob Rohorn? What's that guy know?
Go to Top of Page

Speedbiker
human power expert

USA
3703 Posts

Posted - 09/20/2017 :  13:02:33  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Right Warren. I assumed he knew that, but maybe not. Yeah, you need a flange. Whether it's created in the mold or added later.
Go to Top of Page

warren
human power expert

USA
6050 Posts

Posted - 09/20/2017 :  13:16:57  Show Profile  Visit warren's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Also plan to use polycarbonate or PETG for the windshield, not acrylic. Acrylic will (does!) shatter on impact and you will get cut up in a crash.
Go to Top of Page

Matthew Martin
Starting Member

USA
17 Posts

Posted - 09/20/2017 :  14:21:23  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thanks to all for the quick reply... On the idea of a channel or flange (lip), Does anyone know any construction methods for making flanges on a fairing?
Go to Top of Page

alevand
human power expert

USA
2874 Posts

Posted - 09/20/2017 :  16:20:22  Show Profile  Visit alevand's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I don't, but you could look though the project pages on this site.

C:
Tony Levand
Go to Top of Page

Speedbiker
human power expert

USA
3703 Posts

Posted - 09/20/2017 :  20:24:46  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
You lay a raised up area in the mold where you want a window. Mold supply houses sell various thickness of was sheet(1/8, 1/4, etc) that you lay in a mold. Then after the layup you have your window inset. Or you could fabricated the step into your mold(hard). Or, you could add a flange from aluminum or composite after the shell is pulled from the mold.
Go to Top of Page

Speedbiker
human power expert

USA
3703 Posts

Posted - 09/20/2017 :  20:29:01  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Edit: various thicknesses of WAX sheet.
Go to Top of Page

Matthew Martin
Starting Member

USA
17 Posts

Posted - 09/20/2017 :  20:31:22  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thank you, so If I went with the first method I would have to lay a sheet into the female mold to create an offset

Edited by - Matthew Martin on 09/20/2017 20:31:48
Go to Top of Page

Speedbiker
human power expert

USA
3703 Posts

Posted - 09/20/2017 :  22:11:13  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Exactly! And remember, you can shim your windshield out. If the joggle is too shallow you'll cut it off.
Can't wait to see how you make your windshield!
Go to Top of Page

carolina
recumbent guru

USA
516 Posts

Posted - 09/20/2017 :  22:34:30  Show Profile  Visit carolina's Homepage  Reply with Quote
My windows so far will glue inside, 1/16" thick (dow-u 428 windshield adhesive) like my airplane (plane thicker). Then mask and do a bead outside next day.

[/URL]
--------------
Below is a windshield joggle built into tool which ends up in orange part. Then the straight acrylic or petg lays in joggle. If I don't have enough pedal room l may haf to mod my front windshield like orange one.

[/URL]
_________________

I will lay mine in female mold. This vac stuff don't look easy.

https://youtu.be/sQpynFwHp2o

https://youtu.be/zLFpoiR7ouE

velosRus.com

Edited by - carolina on 09/21/2017 08:09:49
Go to Top of Page

Matthew Martin
Starting Member

USA
17 Posts

Posted - 09/21/2017 :  20:39:35  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thanks...is Joggle the official Term? And are there methods for creating this type of offset in the male plug for the mold. On Larry Lems speed bikes page, he created an offset in his plug and was wondering if anybody knew how he did it? He does not mention this in the build.
Go to Top of Page

Speedbiker
human power expert

USA
3703 Posts

Posted - 09/21/2017 :  22:37:49  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
When you cnc your plug, have the window offset in your model so it goes in the code. No way I'd do it by hand. Or do it as previously mentioned.
Go to Top of Page

warren
human power expert

USA
6050 Posts

Posted - 09/22/2017 :  08:40:25  Show Profile  Visit warren's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Apparently George Leone's method uses thick mastick tape.
Go to Top of Page

carolina
recumbent guru

USA
516 Posts

Posted - 09/22/2017 :  23:25:30  Show Profile  Visit carolina's Homepage  Reply with Quote
No cnc here, i use sq vinyl floor tile (12") with heat gun, holds any shape. Glued it to inside of mold, covered with thin bondo, then duratec and wet sand for days then polish duratec to 80% or better gloss. The whole rear joggle seat on blk velomobile about post for rear cowling was done this way. Read and see my velomobiel thread.

Below: it runs the 3" perimeter at bulkhead down in their and in part #2 roll-over too (on shelf, not in photo).

[/URL]
------------

velosRus.com
Go to Top of Page

Joel DIckman
recumbent enthusiast

USA
127 Posts

Posted - 10/01/2017 :  08:21:21  Show Profile  Visit Joel DIckman's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Matthew Martin

...The bike is a somewhat practical streamliner that is high enough to be moderately visible in traffic...


Hi Matthew,

Some friendly (but unsolicited) advice: the way that you design and construct your somewhat practical streamliner should reflect your intended usage. Like Louis Sullivan said, "form follows function." If your goal is to go to Battle Mountain or shoot for a speed record, getting the last tiny quantum of aerodynamic advantage is the main thing. Everything else gets subordinated to the need for speed.

If you intend to use the bike on the street, next to motorists in trucks and cars, some compromises are smart. You should make the head canopy removable, mainly for improved visibility, but also for superior ventilation in hot & humid weather. This means settling for a somewhat less aerodynamic shell than what would be best for a Battle Mountain streamliner.

It will pay big dividends in safety and practicality if you want to share the road with distracted drivers though.

Good luck with your project in any case. You came to the right website to get informed advice.

Safe riding,
Joel Dickman
http://lightningriders.com

These three prevent most accidents: seeing, being seen, & (usually) common sense.

Edited by - Joel DIckman on 10/01/2017 08:24:23
Go to Top of Page

Speedbiker
human power expert

USA
3703 Posts

Posted - 10/01/2017 :  18:55:12  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Most excellent advice concerning the canopy.
Go to Top of Page

Matthew Martin
Starting Member

USA
17 Posts

Posted - 10/01/2017 :  20:17:57  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thank you for the advice .... If any one was wondering what I am planning I made some renderings of the bike
and the rear


The thing at the top are the brake lights and turn signals.
I know I have to add mirrors. The bike will have a dual landing gear and foot flaps.
This is just a render and am open to suggestions
The bike has enough room for my skate board and book bag. I also has a large vacant area in the front which could be used for light storage.

Edited by - Matthew Martin on 10/01/2017 20:30:14
Go to Top of Page

Speedbiker
human power expert

USA
3703 Posts

Posted - 10/01/2017 :  21:34:27  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
You're in high school? Great job. Two areas to consider. Landing gear require special skills and are generally hateful. And low vehicles don't work well with foot flaps because your legs are too bent for good leverage. Secondly, big canopies cook you in summer sun. I can't suggest strongly enough that you consider a tadpole configuration three wheeled velomobiles.
Keep up the good work!
Go to Top of Page

carolina
recumbent guru

USA
516 Posts

Posted - 10/01/2017 :  21:53:46  Show Profile  Visit carolina's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Something speedbiker said, if you wanta use this start with 3 wheels. I worked 4 years on building the black velo above and still finishing rear cowling and canopy/windows. I did a 2 wheeler.

velosRus.com
Go to Top of Page

Matthew Martin
Starting Member

USA
17 Posts

Posted - 10/02/2017 :  05:31:44  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thank you...I forgot to mention that this bike measures just under 4 ft tall so not exactly low (taller than a velomobile)and is about 10ft long. I have decided not to go with a trike configuration because of the added weight, cost ,and more complex suspension design. for the landing gear i was planning on using Mr. Warren Beauchamps deign. An example of a dual landing gear is seen on this bike

And for the foot flaps I plan to use ones similar to the pob streamliner

If you could please elaborate on why the landing gear requires much more skill
And I am currently figuring out how to cool the bike

Go to Top of Page

Speedbiker
human power expert

USA
3703 Posts

Posted - 10/02/2017 :  07:23:48  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Matthew, how many recumbents have you ridden. Now, how many low recumbents? There are people can't manage to ride recumbent. And even more who can't ride a low recumbent. Now add the added mass and restricted mobility of a streamliner. Fewer people yet have the potential skill to ride a fully enclosed two wheeler. And of those, many won't have the ability to start and stop with landing gear. Something you will have to do at every stop light and stop sign. And that doesn't include emergency stops. In the end I fear you will build something very few people will have the skill to ride, never mind the desire. However, don't think you are unique in this catagory. On at least two occasions people hauled their streamliners all the way to Battle Mtn only to discover no matter how hard they tried they could not ride the machines they'd spend months building. In two of these instances I was able to ride their liners. You see guys like Warren, Dennis, Richard Myers, and myself riding low liners and it may look easy. But I assure you it isn't. I built and rode my first liner in 1993, and I fell A LOT. Why do you think there is only one or two commercial two wheeled liners? Both of which are not low, hard bodied, or use landing gear? (I excluded the BoC because I only know of one and it costs $30k). You are smart and ambitious. But you need to reconsider the practicality of what you want to build.
Go to Top of Page

Jerry
recumbent guru

USA
935 Posts

Posted - 10/02/2017 :  08:34:41  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I have to totally agree with what Speedbiker said. I can ride just about anything, but I built a streamliner around my low racer, an Optima Baron, and it was not practical to ride on the road and street. So, I bought a cheap Performer trike, and built a coroplast velomobile. The trike was $1,285 delivered to my door, and I have about $120 in materials. Maybe you should start with something practical like a corovelo or coroliner. Cheap and almost as fast a a hard body streamliner or velomobile. If you add a hood and windshield, it is will be even faster and can be used in all kinds of weather. Just make the hood removable. Good luck with your project.
Go to Top of Page
Page: of 4 Previous Topic Topic Next Topic  
Next Page
 New Topic  Reply to Topic
 Printer Friendly
Jump To:
www.recumbents.com © 2017 www.recumbents.com Go To Top Of Page
Snitz Forums 2000