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TVM
recumbent enthusiast

USA
184 Posts

Posted - 01/13/2011 :  11:10:29  Show Profile  Visit TVM's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Might make a nice TILTER.

The seat is at 13" with a 451 and room for 1.75's.
Could be reduced to about 8 or 9" by running a 406 and reducing clearence and crown depth. so probably still too high for an ultralow tilter.






JM

Edited by - TVM on 01/13/2011 11:14:52

Grasshopper
recumbent guru

USA
511 Posts

Posted - 01/13/2011 :  11:22:47  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Tandem?
I'm getting excited! Can't wait to see the finished product.

Chris
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TVM
recumbent enthusiast

USA
184 Posts

Posted - 01/13/2011 :  11:25:45  Show Profile  Visit TVM's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Just noticed the front fork is backwards.
Ran a little neg. offset to help with chain clearence.
Brake and der. brackets will be bolted/bonded to lower legs.

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Upright Mike
human power expert

USA
3864 Posts

Posted - 01/13/2011 :  16:16:00  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I just saw the front half of this beauty in person - wow its sharp! Funny thing - i was standing in John's shop for about 10 minutes before I noticed it - pointed straight at me! It looks so much like his other bike's front ends, I just mistook it for one of midracer creations the Apache or 650/700.
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25hz
human power supergeek

Canada
1223 Posts

Posted - 01/14/2011 :  04:56:55  Show Profile  Visit 25hz's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Haha! Tilter indeed! That's awesome John! You need to finish that up because I have some tandem plans myself, and then we can hit the track and bust open some tandem racing too!

Edited by - 25hz on 01/14/2011 05:07:33
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steve
Starting Member

Canada
39 Posts

Posted - 01/14/2011 :  09:34:13  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Front wheel drive tandem? Or front and rear wheel drive?

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Jeff Wills
human power supergeek

USA
1272 Posts

Posted - 01/14/2011 :  20:15:25  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by steve

Front wheel drive tandem? Or front and rear wheel drive?




I'd assume front-and-rear drive. My question would be whether it's going to be back-to-back...


I wonder if John would be willing to adopt me.
__________________
Jeff Wills
All my bikes:
http://home.comcast.net/~jeff_wills/Gallery/index.html

Edited by - Jeff Wills on 01/14/2011 20:22:33
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Upright Mike
human power expert

USA
3864 Posts

Posted - 01/15/2011 :  05:10:05  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
As John is probably hands-deep in his carbon skunk-works shop right now! building, I'll chime in what I know or saw on Thursday this past week ...

The tandem will be back-to-back with independent drives. It's all carbon construction should be significantly lighter than aluminum/steel tandems on the market. There will be a carbon section between the seats to serve as storage but not necessarily faired like a tailbox. The seats will be adjustable tilt between 23 degs to something? There will be clearances between the seats so helmets don't bump. The frame sections will be joined together. It wasn't necessary to take them apart according to the customer. John is still working with his customer on the gearing. Not to divulge too much top secret info, but the main drive for the captain will possibly be 70/56 chainrings driving a 451 x 28 tire, so this is roughly the equivalent of a 54/43 chainring driving a 700 x 23 tire. After looking at lots of back to back tandems including touring models, all with double cranksets, it was concluded that a double, not a triple should be sufficient. The rear drive train will be an entirely different design all together - a perhaps revolutionary cross-over type of desigh - I'll let John divulge that!

One of the more final sketches of the tandem. Note, the actual build can differ.


John's added a simple splitter plate in this photo. This will probably be faired in a bit more.

Edited by - Upright Mike on 01/15/2011 05:17:12
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TVM
recumbent enthusiast

USA
184 Posts

Posted - 03/04/2011 :  13:29:26  Show Profile  Visit TVM's Homepage  Reply with Quote





34lbs. as pictured

JM
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Larry Lem
human power expert

South Sandwich Islands
2539 Posts

Posted - 03/04/2011 :  18:15:49  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Great! Now lay those riders back some more!

Larry Lem
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warren
human power expert

USA
6454 Posts

Posted - 03/04/2011 :  18:36:16  Show Profile  Visit warren's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Wow, very cool.
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TVM
recumbent enthusiast

USA
184 Posts

Posted - 03/21/2011 :  12:10:15  Show Profile  Visit TVM's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Customer's choice on seat angle. I don't think I could find a willing stoker!

Video of rear-facing RWD front der shifting. (never linked video before)

[URL=http://s363.photobucket.com/albums/oo72/JohnMorciglio/?action=view¤t=MVI_3263.mp4][/URL]
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TVM
recumbent enthusiast

USA
184 Posts

Posted - 03/21/2011 :  12:11:19  Show Profile  Visit TVM's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Take 2;

http://s363.photobucket.com/albums/oo72/JohnMorciglio/?action=view¤t=MVI_3263.mp4
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TVM
recumbent enthusiast

USA
184 Posts

Posted - 03/21/2011 :  12:19:39  Show Profile  Visit TVM's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Guess that worked.
Made a "mirror image" of front der. To shift the left-side drive RWD rear of Back-to-back.

Taken with a camera. Don't think it has too high of a pixel count.

Old school U-tube

JM

Edited by - TVM on 03/21/2011 12:25:41
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Larry Lem
human power expert

South Sandwich Islands
2539 Posts

Posted - 03/21/2011 :  15:12:30  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Golly!
That looks like it works fairly well.

Does the chain rub on the chain tube in most / many of of the crank/cog combinations, some worse than others? Is it livable? Do you think that the rider would just try to avoid those? Did it require much experimentation resulting in the chain guide as the chain returned to the crank?

It sure uses a lot less hardware than the rear end of my Goliath setup!

Larry Lem
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TVM
recumbent enthusiast

USA
184 Posts

Posted - 03/21/2011 :  15:49:37  Show Profile  Visit TVM's Homepage  Reply with Quote
The chain does rub on the tube most of the time. Drag seems minimal though. Gets quiet when rings and cogs are lined up close. Big ring and 6 thru 9th cog. 6 and 7th cog should be the sweet spot.

The chain guide took a little time. Had to pivot up/dowm, and in/out. But not front to back.

The crossed chain could be eliminated with the "two pullies above the crank" set-up. Could still use the front shifter and might result in less drag at the cost of more weight; longer chain, 2 idlers and brackets/bolts.

One option I did not like was the Rholoff hub. 2 lbs and 1200? bucks with drag and loss of efficiency.

JM
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TVM
recumbent enthusiast

USA
184 Posts

Posted - 03/21/2011 :  16:10:34  Show Profile  Visit TVM's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Just found the "Goliath" build page.

Stoker rides blind? How'd you find a willing partner? My kids said they will test ride it with me.

JM
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TVM
recumbent enthusiast

USA
184 Posts

Posted - 03/21/2011 :  16:18:42  Show Profile  Visit TVM's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I also started with compact (34/50) crankset for his female stoker. And the 26" rear wheel. She is geared too low with a 451/? set-up.

Switched out the 34 for a 39 because the chain cross-over point was too close to crankset. A longer inseam would help that drivetrain set-up alot.

JM
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Larry Lem
human power expert

South Sandwich Islands
2539 Posts

Posted - 03/21/2011 :  20:54:52  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Being in the back is the most fun! I only know this from the bare-frame bike, not the streamliner.

We argued over who would ride in the back on the streamliner as we both tried to shirk the responsibility of steering and control. I won the captain's job as I could start better up front (transition from Flintstone paddling to regular bike riding).

Larry Lem
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Upright Mike
human power expert

USA
3864 Posts

Posted - 03/21/2011 :  21:09:08  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
John - its awesome watching that video of the rear derailleur. You might be ushering in a whole new era of back-to-back tandem cross-over, upside-down, mirrored drivetrains for the rear stoker! Just like Tilting Timmie popularized lean trikes on the circuit, I think this type of tandem could become popular. If only most people had the time and patience like you and Larry to build a tandem! If you need a local stoker, I'll be your test mule. I bet we could do a 30 mph lap at the park on it!

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Larry Lem
human power expert

South Sandwich Islands
2539 Posts

Posted - 03/22/2011 :  10:30:44  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I would like to make a dual 700C, very layed-back, back-to-back midracer, after the good luck I found with the 650C bike. We might finally be able to beat everyone at the Fiesta Island 20k TT if it worked as hoped. My dual 650C single is surprisingly faster than the original Goliath bare-frame tandem.

But I must finish the current streamliner and see what new plans arise from that first.

Larry Lem
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DeanV
Starting Member

New Zealand
24 Posts

Posted - 06/05/2011 :  17:07:14  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Has this bike been finished yet? If so, how did it go?
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Upright Mike
human power expert

USA
3864 Posts

Posted - 06/06/2011 :  18:50:14  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The bike is in its final stages (or perhaps completed). It will have to be delivered to its proud new ownder(s), which is going to be a long drive away from the John.

Some more recent picts here
http://s363.photobucket.com/albums/oo72/JohnMorciglio

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Jellico
Starting Member

USA
3 Posts

Posted - 09/08/2014 :  20:06:11  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
It's now for sale.
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Jeff Wills
human power supergeek

USA
1272 Posts

Posted - 09/09/2014 :  21:15:39  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Jellico

It's now for sale.



Crap. There's no freakin' way I'm going to get my wife on that. Darn darn darn.


__________________
Jeff Wills
All my bikes:
http://home.comcast.net/~jeff_wills/Gallery/index.html
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Upright Mike
human power expert

USA
3864 Posts

Posted - 09/12/2014 :  07:22:39  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Jellico

It's now for sale.

Quick Larry. Buy it and use it for the Chassis of a new Tandem Streamliner!! We can bump up the gearing so we can go 80 MPH!
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